This is what happens when you land with your wheels down in an amphib. I am VERY glad the family made it out ok.

http://www.mymotherlode.com/News/articl ... 1219450228


Why does this keep happening? Following simple landing checklists would have prevented this and the hundreds of other times in amphibs.

To give you an idea how the insurance companies know this is going to happen look at the rates. AAA Rated Pilot. A $115K hull valued C180 on wheels= $2400/yr. On straight floats =$3200/yr. Same plane on amphibs = $6700/yr!!!!!!!!!!!!! yikes! Talking to them, they figure you will land with your wheels down in the water eventually. Sad.

Aarrrrggggg! Yes doggone it! CHECKLISTS! CHECKLISTS! CHECKLISTS!

No matter how experienced we think we are we should always follow checklists even if someone thinks you still need to look at the instructions. Just explain to them that for their safty we always follow checklists even though we know all of this stuff.

I was once going through a MEI checkride. The examiner was an airline captain and DPE on the side.

When we were done, he said "That was great, but I do have a question for you--You act like you're paranoid about the landing gear--you checked it at least three times on every approach. What's up with that?"

My response was that almost all my comlex aircraft time is in amphibians. He still didn't get it--not float rated.

It's amazing they got those kids out of there. That 206 is a tough one to get out of the back seats, cause the aft cargo door is going to be blocked by the flaps. Good for Dad for getting the little one out of there.

Frankly, it won't be long before you just won't be able to get amphibian insurance at any price.

MTV

I'm awfully glad for this family. I met the pilot at Columbia last year. He's a real nice guy.

You guys who have lots of time in '6s (with cargo doors), what do you recommend for a forced landing with passengers in the center and the back? I figured if I was ditching it's pretty likely to flip regardless, so I might as well keep the flaps up and open all the doors before impact. But forced landing off airport in rough terrain (not the recommended ploughed field), do you keep the cargo doors closed so you can use flaps to lower landing/impact speed, then tell the pax to open the doors against the flaps and be ready to kick once the dust settles? Or do you open all the doors to maximize the odds of escape and land no flaps? All this assumes there's altitude and time to make a decision. I'd like to make up my mind in advance. Wheels down on an amphib, there's probably not enough time to finish saying "Oh . . . ."

Thanks.

CAVU

This video should give you an idea of how much time you have.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BWzeFkGOUt8

CAVU,

I would NEVER consider opening the cargo door prior to landing on a 206. Frankly, those clamshell doors probably contribute to keeping the structure in place.

I also would not consider landing, in water or land, without deploying flaps.

The best approach here is to make absolutely certain, through repetitive exercises, that your passengers know how to open that aft cargo door in the event of a problem.

Frankly, at least for the folks in the middle row of seats, I tell them that going out the pilot side door is still the best, quickest way out.

I really don't like carrying people in those far aft seats in the 206 because of egress issues, but......

MTV

Splashpilot wrote:This is what happens when you land with your wheels down in an amphib. I am VERY glad the family made it out ok.

http://www.mymotherlode.com/News/articl ... 1219450228


Why does this keep happening? Following simple landing checklists would have prevented this and the hundreds of other times in amphibs.

To give you an idea how the insurance companies know this is going to happen look at the rates. AAA Rated Pilot. A $115K hull valued C180 on wheels= $2400/yr. On straight floats =$3200/yr. Same plane on amphibs = $6700/yr!!!!!!!!!!!!! yikes! Talking to them, they figure you will land with your wheels down in the water eventually. Sad.

*******************

This keeps happening...

....because we are human beings and humans sometimes error. Always have. aAways will.

Bob

"The youngest child was in a booster seat, and Bartel says that the father had to dive down approximately three times to smash out the back window in order to bring the child to safety."

Makes me shudder just picturing it! After much contemplation on the subject, I have carried my kids while on floats. Just like before aerobatic flight where you go through the motions of bailing out, I go through the motions of water egress with my eyes closed and breath held, undoing their buckles while maintaining a point of contact with the door - knowing that it's nothing like the real thing (just like trying to go through the motions of a bailout).

I know that the rear clamshell door on a 206 can be opened with the flaps down, but you first have to open the front clamshell door against the flap to do so. Seems like some of the earlier models didn't have the inboard cutout on the flap to allow this? Can anyone remind me of the year this changed and was this aircraft that went over one of the older designs?

I'm very happy the family came out of this one ok. I bet that pilot will never forget to check and double check the landing gear switch when landing on water again.

mtv wrote:CAVU,

I would NEVER consider opening the cargo door prior to landing on a 206. Frankly, those clamshell doors probably contribute to keeping the structure in place.

I also would not consider landing, in water or land, without deploying flaps.

The best approach here is to make absolutely certain, through repetitive exercises, that your passengers know how to open that aft cargo door in the event of a problem.

Frankly, at least for the folks in the middle row of seats, I tell them that going out the pilot side door is still the best, quickest way out.

I really don't like carrying people in those far aft seats in the 206 because of egress issues, but......

MTV

\

Thanks, MTV. Roger on the flaps. FWIW, my POH (F model) says use fully flaps and open the doors before touchdown for land and sea. I'd bet whoever wrote that hasn't done a forced landing, though.

CAVU

Same thing happened this summer at Lake Chelan WA. Pilot used to flying straight floated Beaver switched to amphib Beaver resulting in a wheels down landing on the lake, resulting in two deaths and a pilot's ruined life and career. Sad. Hmmm.....Yea.....checklists

I know Dave Bartel (he flys a 172 at O22 Columbia) personally and I have to get some clarification on some of the details. I really can't imagine trying to smash out a window and reach through and unbuckle a kid and pull them back through the window. If ya'll have seen acrylic break, you know it stays largely intact and you'd have to pull out all the pieces to make a whole big enough to reach through etc. Also, if it were the "back window" which is the only window really big enough to get anything through, it would be facing down on an upside down aircraft, so you'd have to swim down and try to punch up or ???, just seems inplausible to me.

If I had to bet, I'd say he went in through the barn doors. Yes, the flap limits the front door and the rear has the red lever that would have to be folded down then back up to clear the other door but if my kid was in there, I'd bend what I had to in order to get the doors open. I just can't see going through plexiglass...

western,

First, you are assuming that the plexiglass was still there. It might have gotten blown out by the roll over. Punching out a plexiglass window really isn't that tough, and actually, if you think about an upside down high wing airplane, the passenger windows would still be on the sides of the plane, but not blocked by the wing. While you are generally correct on trying to BREAK plexiglass, its a lot easier to simply push the window out of the frame rather than break it. They aren't secured in there all that well.

The rear cargo door on a 206 locks from the inside, so opening the door from outside may or may not work--and I'd bet on wouldn't in most cases, unless he was flying with it unlatched, which is doubtful.

I wouldn't doubt for a moment that a motivated father could punch out a side window and get a child out of the back.

MTV

MTV,

Your correct, you have to fold the handle on the front barn door first but before I went out my door I would be unlocking doors for others,,, and even if I didn't, once the aircraft is inverted and hanging by the floats, you'd be standing on the bottom of the wings, from either side, you could unlatch the front barn door pretty easily. I really don't see going in through one of the small barn door windows or the same sized window on the left side. Too small, IMHO, to drag a kid through and as I said I really doubt the back window deal as it would be the most difficult to break or knock out, again, IMHO. I flew a 1981 206 for ten years and I often thought about how to get those two back seat passengers out. I can't even imagine the 207/208's...

I'll catch up with Dave at some point and get the non-media version...