For those thinking about buying one of these as discussed in Barnstormer's 185 mod thread, they're on sale for $85 here: http://jbtoolsales.com/antigravity-batt ... fgod3EwASg

MTV

Hey MTV-

I'm no electrician, but any one see a problem with getting 2 of these and hooking 'em up in series for 24 volts?

Brad

Durango Skywagon wrote:Hey MTV-

I'm no electrician, but any one see a problem with getting 2 of these and hooking 'em up in series for 24 volts?

Brad

If one is half-flat or a bit weaker for any reason, it will take more of the load and cause a bigger voltage drop.

That might be worth a try Brad. I have a 24 volt jump starter that I used to carry when going to remote lakes (before getting the Sat phone), it weighs 44lbs and cost around $500. Two anti-gravity jumpers would sure have advantages over that if they will work.

Steve

I bought the anti gravity battery back in October to throw in the tool bag / survival kit. I've jumped my truck and a couple 4 stroke snowmachines. I haven't jumped the airplane battery but I don't think it would have a problem doing so. After jumping a snowmachine battery, the anti gravity battery charged my iPhone for four days. I don't think I could get more than a jump or two out of it. Only time will tell if the battery is worth it or not. It's been handy so far.

deleted for being a dumbass and not paying attention...

bigrenna wrote:Certainly there are those that don't care at all, but Im a bit confused as this battery is not certified for aircraft use. The Odyssey J-16 is, which was the basis for its use in the various firewall STCs.

Barnstormer spoke of a "recommended" battery with his bat box. STC's usually don't recommend but explicitly list P/Ns to use. The FA Dodge STC SA02333AK-D Dc. NO II-I005 calls for ONLY the SBS-J-16. Other than internet conjecture and grey area interpretations of AC 43.13, what is the actual basis for this install? From where I sit, w/out the PMA or explicit documentation, it cant be installed (legally that is.)

The FAA has been easing on some issues like the use of 8.5x6's on 170-185s etc, non-certified angle of attacks, and non-certified portable electronics in the panel, but these were all done with official documentation.

I would love to loose some more weight with a battery like this... What am I missing?

It just goes with your tool kit.
I have one, that I have used a couple of time to jump 4 wheelers.

Terry wrote:

bigrenna wrote:Certainly there are those that don't care at all, but Im a bit confused as this battery is not certified for aircraft use. The Odyssey J-16 is, which was the basis for its use in the various firewall STCs.

Barnstormer spoke of a "recommended" battery with his bat box. STC's usually don't recommend but explicitly list P/Ns to use. The FA Dodge STC SA02333AK-D Dc. NO II-I005 calls for ONLY the SBS-J-16. Other than internet conjecture and grey area interpretations of AC 43.13, what is the actual basis for this install? From where I sit, w/out the PMA or explicit documentation, it cant be installed (legally that is.)

The FAA has been easing on some issues like the use of 8.5x6's on 170-185s etc, non-certified angle of attacks, and non-certified portable electronics in the panel, but these were all done with official documentation.

I would love to loose some more weight with a battery like this... What am I missing?

It just goes with your tool kit.
I have one, that I have used a couple of time to jump 4 wheelers.

Crap... I wasnt paying attention. For some reason since there was the talk about EarthX, I thought you guys were talking about that... I suppose I should read and not be a dumbass....

I will delete my post and put it where I meant it to go....

flylow wrote:I bought the anti gravity battery back in October to throw in the tool bag / survival kit. I've jumped my truck and a couple 4 stroke snowmachines. I haven't jumped the airplane battery but I don't think it would have a problem doing so. After jumping a snowmachine battery, the anti gravity battery charged my iPhone for four days. I don't think I could get more than a jump or two out of it. Only time will tell if the battery is worth it or not. It's been handy so far.

It has been four months since I bought the Anti Gravity Battery pack. I would NOT buy it again. I had high hopes of losing my Honda 1000W generator for the truck/snowmachine/airplane. I leave my truck at the trailhead for my cabin (if I don't fly --- hauling loads) and I often come back to a cold, dead truck. I carried the Antigravity Battery and kept it warm, but returned and wouldn't jump my truck.

What Can the Antigravity Battery Do?
iPhone - I can charge my iPhone 5S with it. It will charge the phone for 4 days from 25% charge to full. It is fine for charging the phone.
Snowmachine - It will jump a Ski Doo Tundra 550F. It does this and uses two bars of charge. But I don't need it for my Tundra since it has a pull cord. It was handy for my 4 stroke YamahOg snowmachine.

What Can't the Anitgravity Battery Do?
It will not jump a car. This is the biggest disappointment, since this is the main reason I bought the jump starter. I have tried to jump start my Toyota Tacoma (4cylinder) and it will not jump it, even with a full charge. I charge the antigravity battery weekly for trips and always keep it warm. It won't jumpstart a V6 Tacoma either. I haven't tried it on the Cub, but based on my limited success / unreliable service of the battery, I won't count on it. Sure, I'll take it with me just in case, but I only plan on using it to charge my phone.

I guess I'm glad I can hand prop the Cub. This anti-gravity battery would make it alot easier if it would work. I've used the larger jump starter compressor combos with good success. Although it is much heavier, it hasn't failed me even at -40F. I have used the large jump starters for my boat, truck, Cub, and snowmachines.

I'm not endorsing these but, the napa lady said I could bring it back if I did't like it. So the first test was starting an o470 with out the master switch on, normal preheat for a January day in mn. Started on the third blade. 2002 dodge Cummings 4 degrees Fahrenheit battery was run down by someone else trying to start with out plugging in ahead of time. I plug it in for about 45 mn used the dead battery to heat the glow plugs and then started right up with the battery pack. Next was an LP fork lift with a completely dead battery it spun over and started faster then using it's own battery. I tried to start a bobcat with a completely dead battery, but with out preheating the glow plugs the battery pack would trip its breaker. That is the only thing I have not been able to start thus far and I have not recharged it yet. I still think it's voodoo magic but I have not found a reason to return it. I will be carrying it as regular gear when flying.
46tcrft

Watched a gent crank his Ford 1/2 ton pickup with one a couple days ago.....cranked like crazy.

If your truck is parked at very cold temps without engine heat, I wouldn't bet on it working, but then the trucks battery probably won't either.

MTV

Mine has started my Nissan Frontier V-6 multiple times in single digit temps until I could get the regular "DieHard" battery replaced.
It has easily started my Rotax 912 when I left my master turned on for a week.
It just started my Husaberg motorcycle after it sat for 3 months.
And it still shows 3/4 charge.
Mine is worth every penny I spent on it.
I'm picking up a second one so I can keep one in the plane and one in my truck.

It comes down to cranking amps, or how many amps your starter pulls.
If the 4 batteries in my kenworth are totally dead this little battery isn't going to cut it, but if they are just low, as in the solenoid is clicking but the engine won't quite turn over it could easily be enough to get it started.

I just bought the Micro-Start XP-10 jump starter a few weeks ago (600 peak cranking power), mostly to carry on my Ski-Doo Explorer snowmobile that does not have a pull start. I have not had a need to use the unit yet. There are different models of jump start units. flylow, I wonder if your unit is the smaller one that only has 400 cranking power?

Steve

there are a couple of models listed XP3 and larger XP10

which one are you using 46tcrft?

cbfraser, again I am not endorsing this model or the anti gravity battery in general. I got it from the local napa store it's called a boost max 560. It weighs 1.35 lbs. 450 cranking amps and 900 peak amps. as Terry mentioned it's all about cranking amps and if what I have been told is true, a standard acid battery will lose almost half it's cranking amps in cold conditions.
46tcrft

Words of warning about lithium ion batteries, RC modelers are big on these, many articles on caring for your LI batteries. This could be an incendiary device.
1. If damaged they may or will burn like a road flair, never pack it where it can be damaged and never assume that a damaged battery will not burst into flames at any time. Seen it happen in a car trunk on the way home.
2. Unless this battery is different than other L I batteries, they do not like to be stored in a full charged state, it may damage it. Store @ 50 to 70% charge till needed.
3. They like being exercised discharge to 20% and recharge and repeat, its called loosening the pack, helps the discharge rate.
4. Fully discharging it will also damage it.
5. When charging keep in open steel container, probably not a big issue if you’re not fast charging them.

I'm not sure why these rumors seem to persist.
Lithium Ion batteries are not new technology and in their current form are no more dangerous than lead acid batteries.
Most of the restriction on them are the result of issues with old technology systems.
Most, if not all modern Li batteries have built in circuitry to protect against over charging and over discharge.
For every anecdotal story of a Li battery becoming a "road flare" there are hundreds of stories of Lead acid batteries exploding.
Every segment of the battery industry has embraced the Li battery. From cell phones to home power tools to RVs and Marine applications. Including nearly every other motor sport now have multiple Li battery choices. Li batteries are in baby monitors and smoke detectors, hearing aids and pacemakers.
There are no nightly reports of self destructing batteries. Nor do any of the associated instruction for use include any precautions to charge them in a steel container.
I have never seen any IFU on any lithium battery that states it should be stored at less than full charge.
I'm not sure how one would go about doing that. The ones in my bikes were at full charge when I bought them as well as my Antigravity packs.
I've had Li batteries in my power tools for years and they are always stored fully charged.
There are fully charged Li batteries in millions of stores and outlets around the world.
My power tools all have rapid chargers and the ones in my motorcycles get the same charging rate that the old lead batteries got.
Unlike my old lead batteries, my Li batteries don't care what position they are mounted nor do they care if they are vented.
My Li batteries will hold a charge all winter long and are up to full cranking amps after only minutes of normal charge.
Lead acid batteries are old outdated technology and are quickly becoming a ting of the past. Even the "gel" versions are on the way out.

In the Boeing 787 Dreamliner's first year of service, at least four aircraft suffered from electrical system problems stemming from its lithium-ion batteries. Although teething problems are common within the first year of a new aircraft design's life, after a number of incidents including an electrical fire aboard an All Nippon Airways 787, and a similar fire found by maintenance workers on a landed Japan Airlines 787.
I know this must be all just rumor and old technology, Yea right!
And Yes lead acid batteries do explode, a loud pop and acid dripping every where, been there done that, but I have never heard or read of one failing in thermal runway, like I have seen on a LI battery, I'm not saying that LI technology is not the up coming thing, but ignoring the possibility of a potentially hazardous condition in the cockpit can and has killed people, throwing one of these baby's in your tool box and have it short out or get damaged can or will start a fire. The most likely cause of the disappearance of MA 370 was the LI battery cargo that it was on board.. Do an internet search on LI fire hazards, You may also take the time to educate your self on charging and discharging LI batteries, people that use them in RC have a much better understanding of these than some one using them in a power tool or motorcycle, How do you know if your getting your full capacity out of your batteries? Do you load test them and check balance on your cells like we do that fly them in RC aircraft?Or do you just put them on a charger and call it good, That's what I thought.

172heavy wrote:In the Boeing 787 Dreamliner's first year of service, at least four aircraft suffered from electrical system problems stemming from its lithium-ion batteries. Although teething problems are common within the first year of a new aircraft design's life, after a number of incidents including an electrical fire aboard an All Nippon Airways 787, and a similar fire found by maintenance workers on a landed Japan Airlines 787.
I know this must be all just rumor and old technology, Yea right!
And Yes lead acid batteries do explode, a loud pop and acid dripping every where, been there done that, but I have never heard or read of one failing in thermal runway, like I have seen on a LI battery, I'm not saying that LI technology is not the up coming thing, but ignoring the possibility of a potentially hazardous condition in the cockpit can and has killed people, throwing one of these baby's in your tool box and have it short out or get damaged can or will start a fire. The most likely cause of the disappearance of MA 370 was the LI battery cargo that it was on board.. Do an internet search on LI fire hazards, You may also take the time to educate your self on charging and discharging LI batteries, people that use them in RC have a much better understanding of these than some one using them in a power tool or motorcycle, How do you know if your getting your full capacity out of your batteries? Do you load test them and check balance on your cells like we do that fly them in RC aircraft?Or do you just put them on a charger and call it good, That's what I thought.

The salient point is that there are lithium ion batteries and then there are lithium ion batteries. The older generation LI batteries have exhibited thermal runaway properties. The 787 used and may still use that type battery.

The Anti Gravity battery, and most other newer generation lithium ion batteries are in fact a different technology and a different chemical makeup. They are Lithium Iron Phosphate (LiPO) batteries. The lithium Iron Phosphate batteries have not demonstrated thermal runaway. They are a MUCH safer battery, and by all accounts, they are every bit as safe if not safer than a lead acid battery.

Even the Lithium Iron Phosphate batteries do have some different characteristics than lead acid batteries. They should be charged with a smart charger. Depending on the battery's internal circuitry, it may be possible to damage the battery with a standard charger.

Second, they should not be discharged below a certain level of charge. You'll know if you do this, because the battery will never again hold a charge. It'll be junk at that point. Many of these batteries have a disconnect circuit internally, which prevents the battery from being drawn below a specified voltage...problem solved. If you're buying one of these batteries, ASK the manufacturer if the battery contains one of these circuits. This is theone reason that some of these batteries are more expensive than others.

Finally, some of these batteries are designed for continuous discharge or deep discharge. Others are "starting" batteries. If you're starting your engine, after which the battery is re-charged, use a starting type battery. If, on the other hand, you're using it to power radios, charge your cell phone, etc, and only recharging it periodically, find one that is approved for deep discharge.

There are LiPO batteries out there that are approved for both. Just ask the questions before you order.

Don't ask how I know that.

The LiPO batteries are as safe as any batteries and are definitely NOT like the original lithium ion batteries.

I'm guessing the reason that Boeing hasn't just changed those batteries in the 787 to LiPO batteries is simply the hassles required by FAA certification.

I flew an airplane at one time that was equipped with a NiCad battery. Those batteries have been known to thermal runaway. Mine did. POS. Left the sucker on a Bering Sea beach, propped the thing and flew home. Dumb idea to put a NiCad in that airplane.

MTV