1977 C180K IO-520
Wing X, Horton STOL, VGs, Float Kit, 29" Airhawks, ABW tailwheel
N64251

I am a student pilot. I have a few hours in tricycle gear, maybe 30 in my 180, and a few in a 170.

On a couple of occasions I have gotten comments about slight misdirection usually after wheel landing in transition to tail down. On two occasions the crosswinds were sporty and I was skeptical, but I still like the idea of getting other feedback. Two other CFIs haven't commented or observed any squawks.

It could be that they just got behind the plane or it requires more input than they expected. One 185 pilot said it "got his attention" but noone is able to clearly identify or articulate what it might be if anything.

If anyone with extensive 185 experience wants to fly it's at KBTF.

Thanks
Clayton

Clayton:

There are some guys on the 180/185 Skywagon Club forum that have posted ideas on how to check your wheel alignment from the gear legs down. If it is out of align, it wants to take excursions.

I am in Cheyenne, WY so it's too far for me to come over and fly it. But if you're headed this way, I'd sure go up with you and give you my opinion.

I have a 1970 C-185 and mine tracks very well. You could see the difference.
Randy S.

Skywagon1 wrote:Clayton:

There are some guys on the 180/185 Skywagon Club forum that have posted ideas on how to check your wheel alignment from the gear legs down. If it is out of align, it wants to take excursions.

I am in Cheyenne, WY so it's too far for me to come over and fly it. But if you're headed this way, I'd sure go up with you and give you my opinion.

I have a 1970 C-185 and mine tracks very well. You could see the difference.
Randy S.

ok thank you Randy!

First question I'd ask is: How much Skywagon time do these CFIs have? If you have "sporty" winds, the airplane is going to react appropriately, but "sporty" doesn't really mean much. For example, at this airport, they only have one ILS, so they try to keep traffic arriving/departing on 12, the ILS runway, until winds are 8 to 10 knots on the tail. Usually, they change before that. But, point is, a seven or eight knot quartering tailwind can be "sporty", and sometimes it's a bit hard to figure out what's going on, till you watch the sock for a bit and realize there are gusts.

Gear track is REALLY important. Not many mechanics want to align gear, it's messy, and takes a while, but well worth doing. Just looking at the gear with the weight of the plane on it may not be too useful, unless you move it forward and back many times, to allow the gear to "sort out". To align gear, they use grease plates: Two plates with grease between under each main wheel. That allows the gear to "relax".

It's worth verifying, but be sure to find a shop that knows what they're doing there......

MTV

Skip the "assessment" as you are sure to receive as many opinions as takers to your offer and technique dilutes the perceived action. Start fresh with known data. Secure a knowledgeable 180/185 mechanic and align the gear. I would do this on any new acquisition. While you are in there, NDI the lower gear legs, specifically between the axle bolt holes and replace the axle attaching hardware with new. This provides you with known conditions and great "piece of mind". I have been running a 180H for over 30 years mostly on straight skis. Every changeover to wheels I NDI across the bolt holes. I run 8 bolt ski axles, so the bolts are changed out with their applicable axles. Overkill perhaps, but very cheap insurance in comparison to a failure.
By aligning the gear, you are starting with a known quantity resulting in predictability from the machine. The rest will be up to the seat meat.

TR

mtv wrote:First question I'd ask is: How much Skywagon time do these CFIs have? If you have "sporty" winds, the airplane is going to react appropriately, but "sporty" doesn't really mean much. For example, at this airport, they only have one ILS, so they try to keep traffic arriving/departing on 12, the ILS runway, until winds are 8 to 10 knots on the tail. Usually, they change before that. But, point is, a seven or eight knot quartering tailwind can be "sporty", and sometimes it's a bit hard to figure out what's going on, till you watch the sock for a bit and realize there are gusts.

Gear track is REALLY important. Not many mechanics want to align gear, it's messy, and takes a while, but well worth doing. Just looking at the gear with the weight of the plane on it may not be too useful, unless you move it forward and back many times, to allow the gear to "sort out". To align gear, they use grease plates: Two plates with grease between under each main wheel. That allows the gear to "relax".

It's worth verifying, but be sure to find a shop that knows what they're doing there......

MTV

Thank you! Sorry, sporty to me was meant to describe gusty and variable, the sock was changing alot. I appreciate the insight, thanks!

TR wrote:Skip the "assessment" as you are sure to receive as many opinions as takers to your offer and technique dilutes the perceived action. Start fresh with known data. Secure a knowledgeable 180/185 mechanic and align the gear. I would do this on any new acquisition. While you are in there, NDI the lower gear legs, specifically between the axle bolt holes and replace the axle attaching hardware with new. This provides you with known conditions and great "piece of mind". I have been running a 180H for over 30 years mostly on straight skis. Every changeover to wheels I NDI across the bolt holes. I run 8 bolt ski axles, so the bolts are changed out with their applicable axles. Overkill perhaps, but very cheap insurance in comparison to a failure.
By aligning the gear, you are starting with a known quantity resulting in predictability from the machine. The rest will be up to the seat meat.

TR

Thank you! This makes perfect sense, I appreciate it.

can anyone recommend a knowledgeable 185 A&P to do the grease plate alignment ?

hopefully western half of the country?

I agree with everything said so far, but I'd be curious to know the amount of heavy-ish tailwheel experience of the CFIs that had issues. The 180 is a very honest tailwheel airplane but you do need to stay on it in a gusty crosswind during the transition from tail up to tail down as control effectiveness wanes and you have a relatively long moment arm to the tail.

clappedout180 wrote:can anyone recommend a knowledgeable 185 A&P to do the grease plate alignment ?

hopefully western half of the country?

Seems like I only ever hear excellent reviews about Beegles

-DP

denalipilot wrote:

clappedout180 wrote:can anyone recommend a knowledgeable 185 A&P to do the grease plate alignment ?

hopefully western half of the country?

Seems like I only ever hear excellent reviews about Beegles

-DP

thank you DP

Oregon180 wrote:I agree with everything said so far, but I'd be curious to know the amount of heavy-ish tailwheel experience of the CFIs that had issues. The 180 is a very honest tailwheel airplane but you do need to stay on it in a gusty crosswind during the transition from tail up to tail down as control effectiveness wanes and you have a relatively long moment arm to the tail.

agree with that. went up in it today with a 185 owner and high time pilot. we had calm conditions so it was easier to assess. he had no problems at all handling the plane, but he did feel like it was digging in on touchdown and fighting him a bit. we did some high speed taxi ing and it did seem to pull left consistently. i think i will call beegles tomorrow and inquire. thank you

If you're gonna be asking other people to fly your airplane
you might wanna give some thought to what happens if someone wrecks it.
At best, it will probably result in a soured friendship, and at worst, a financial &/or legal nightmare.
Not sure if you have it insured or not, even if you do it's not necessarily all roses--
even if an accident is covered by insurance, and doesn't cost you anything out of pocket,
it will likely result in a lot of down time.
I'm not trying to be the voice of doom, rather the voice of reason,
as I've seen a couple of these "here, fly my airplane" things go bad,

hotrod180 wrote:If you're gonna be asking other people to fly your airplane
you might wanna give some thought to what happens if someone wrecks it.
At best, it will probably result in a soured friendship, and at worst, a financial &/or legal nightmare.
Not sure if you have it insured or not, even if you do it's not necessarily all roses--
even if an accident is covered by insurance, and doesn't cost you anything out of pocket,
it will likely result in a lot of down time.
I'm not trying to be the voice of doom, rather the voice of reason,
as I've seen a couple of these "here, fly my airplane" things go bad,

Thank you HOTROD 180. you are exactly right for sure. I did get a seasoned pilot in it yesterday and he handled the plane easily but did comment that particularly on asphalt it wants to "hunt" (my word comes from the railroad) a bit so you really have to be alert and wrestle it in. So i think all of the advice here about the gear alignment is right on so i am hoping to get it in to Beegles

Clappedout180 let us know what you find out.

Steve Coleman is an absolute master at all forms of rigging on 180/85's (or supercubs's, maules, etc).
He is at the Monte Vista, CO airport KMVI
7195886575
Text him. He is mostly deaf.
Tom

flynbeekeeper wrote:Steve Coleman is an absolute master at all forms of rigging on 180/85's (or supercubs's, maules, etc).
He is at the Monte Vista, CO airport KMVI
7195886575
Text him. He is mostly deaf.
Tom

thank you

hi guys

thanks for all your help

i am sending it to beegles for gear alignment. they do it weighted and they are confident with the results. plus they can take care of a couple other things like the quesar tips i have

ill replace the worn right tire too so that i have a baseline, right now they are worn completely different

While you are at it, put a new set of 8:50’s with new quality tubes, this will make your training life easier. Save the big tires for when you really need them.

Kurt