Condolences to all that are touched by this.

-Denalipilot

This is a truly sad accident - - most all are of course.

Some of you have said you won't fly SE at night. That's okay. For me, I will continue to fly at night and stay current. I don't fly at night all that often, but I do enjoy the beauty of it when I do.

That said, I won't night fly in bad weather, nor would I fly w/no visible horizon or lights without an instrument rated. With no moonlight, you can't see cloud to avoid going IMC.

The FAA private pilot syllabus should continue to require instruction in night flying. To do otherwise simply guarantees more accidents as people get "caught out" and make a poor decision to continue their trip at night without the benifit of proper training. For the FAA to ban all SE night flying seems grossly unfair and smacks of more government meddling.

Obviously there are additional risks incurred flying SE at night, I'm not arguing that. Those risks can be exascerbated by terrain and by weather. It's a matter of wisely choosing which risks you are willing to take.

bumper

Morning news is reporting 60 hours total in two years.
Where the hell was this guy's mentor and who thought it was cool to fly him up here to bring that thing home in those conditions with his experience, ratings and currency by himself? Supposedly someone was on the radio with him flying home.
We may have potentially had a little of the "Thurman Munsen effect" going on here too, 60 hours/two years/Comanche.
News report says they are focusing on the door problem, which I think is just the link in the chain that got things really going in the wrong direction.
Extreme confidence in ones abilities' is sometimes met with an abrupt stop at the end, usually the earth. Saw it lot's in Skydiving.

Bumper:
That said, I won't night fly in bad weather, nor would I fly w/no visible horizon or lights without an instrument rated. With no moonlight, you can't see cloud to avoid going IMC.

I love to fly at night especially under a full moon. Would never, never, never fly at night with clouds or in poor weather..it's just too risky. My plane is not IFR and neither am I.

My condolences to his family and friends..very tough deal.

May we all learn something from this and if we should see someting like this happening, please speak up, we may save a fellow flyer. A little time wasted on the ground is better than a wasted lifetime.
HC

Someone needs to have a VERY long talk with the person who flew him up there and let him try that stunt. I would call it a flight but it was anything but that.

Poor guy and his family,,,

ps, the plane looked to be in great condidtion too,, well before.


As for the night flight thing, I stay night current for two reasons, one is if I ever get caught with the light fading I should be able to continue and have a successful landing, second, flights at night under a full moon with snow on the ground is MAGICAL !!!! YMMV.

Ben.

http://www.magicvalley.com/articles/200 ... 155367.txt

Flying at night single or multi engine is spectacular.
Flying at night over unpopulated terrain, better be IFR rated.
Flying at night in bad weather, regardless of terrain, better have a lot of airplane and a lot of expierance.
who ever talked this guy into, or even suggested that he might be able to make this flight, will have to live with it for a long time.
A man has to know his limitations.
very sad for the ones left behind.

Matt 7GCBC wrote:
Certainly not very populated where he went down and on overcast nights you might be able to log honest instrument time in "VFR" conditions.

Thats correct of that area and beyond. I have my avionics work/IFR certs done in my plane at the Avionics shop in Twin Falls. I'm familiar with that same track the commanche would have flown to Salt Lake. I can't imagine how a VFR flight at night could be done safely up there unless you were at 14,000 ft. on a full moon night. There aren't any towns/lights up there except for a small community in Park Valley. The rest is black. The lake is extra black. Throw in bad weather and.......

The weather at his destination was terrible that evening, high winds, rain, and snow above 6,000. I'm curious as well as to his buddy who was flying in the other plane. I think they said he turned around but what was he thinking?

I once read all the accident reports in the last 25yrs in Jackpot and Wendover and the "black hole" effect has killed more pilots than I would have ever believed. I too like to fly at night and try to stay current but I pick my evenings. No ground ref. no fly.

Prayers go out to the family.

Just saw some more pics. It would appear initially that he may have shucked a couple of critical chunks BEFORE impact.
The tail was supposedly a fer piece from the fuselage and it looks as though the outside half of the left wing is missing although it may have been just out of the photo.
Not TOTALLY sure on that but I'll let you know if I hear any more.
They are also saying that it happened SUNDAY night and I believe that they weren't notified until MONDAY night at 12:00ish! What up with that?
That would make the weather a bit better but no less light.

I wonder if we could all pitch in and do something nice for the family.

Maybe a letter or some money to help start a college fund. I'm more than willing to go out and buy a card and we can start mailing from one person to another.

Tick wrote:I wonder if we could all pitch in and do something nice for the family.

Maybe a letter or some money to help start a college fund. I'm more than willing to go out and buy a card and we can start mailing from one person to another.

Good idea Tick...would we have a BCP member in the Boutiful UT area who might be willing to hand deliver our contributions asuming that's where he was from?

Or who might be willing to take the lead in this thing? Maybe get a little more info on the family...address etc.

What do you think?...some ideas...sounds like the family could use all of the help they could get.
HC

I'm going to start a new thread on this idea so it doesn't get buried under all this.

If we do send a card from BCP, then we need to make this thread go away. I wouldn't want the family reading some of what has been said here.

I would be happy to help out in any capacity. I work at SLC International, 5 minutes from Bountiful.

Count me in.

Consider it done.

DonC wrote:http://www.magicvalley.com/articles/2009/02/18/news/top_story/155367.txt

That puts a lump in your throat.

I should add that I don't want to quell discussion of what went wrong by any means. Nothing should be out of the realm of discussion so don't misunderstand me. I just wouldn't want the family to come to the site and read it after we send them a card with our name on it.

Tick wrote:I should add that I don't want to quell discussion of what went wrong by any means. Nothing should be out of the realm of discussion so don't misunderstand me. I just wouldn't want the family to come to the site and read it after we send them a card with our name on it.

I agree, it is a small world and the chances of someone in their family finding this thread is fairly likely. It is interesting to speculate but put yourself in their shoes.

It takes a while for the database to change when you pass your PPSEL checkride and the paperwork is submitted by the DE. Still a low time pilot either way.

I hope this isn't off topic, however this thread needs to be left weather or not a card is written. Not to be heartless but this discussion is the most important part of this forum in my mind. I do feel for the pain and loss of this poor persons family, but this discussion is what keeps it from happening to us. Unfortunately there are hard truths about accidents and people die, I am sorry for the family but the truth is if these facts are true the pilot had no business being up there. I use discussion like this and other accident research to help me be a better pilot. I appreciate people speculation as it helps us build better understanding of what happened and more importantly the skill set to avoid being in these positions and how to deal with them if you find yourself there. One we start brushing accident discussions away we will be turning a blind eye to this, and that will cause more accidents. What is important here is that we can learn from this poor guys accident. I am sorry for his family but we are pilots, and we need to use this forum to be helping each other be more safe, not protecting the feelings of other non pilots.

Sorry to sound insensitive I just believe that from these accidents and most importantly the discussions I learn and become a safer pilot. I hope to never be in his position however if I was I would want others to see what happened and think twice before making the same decision.

I wish condolences to the family of this poor pilot.

Mike

I went and flew it this morning. Turns out he was about three miles west of one of my airstrips.
I believe he was shucking pieces in flight.
On a fairly NW-SE line there were about seven fairly large chunks spread out over about 3/4 of a mile. First bunch appeard to be wing ending with a large chunk of tail over a 1/4 to 1/2 mile then about 1/4 mile to the fuselage from the tail. The fuselage area had no real visible ground scarring indicating fairly vertical.
Real eerie, out there all by itself waiting for the feds to arrive. Even though it's on fairly easy ground it's muddy as hell out there right now.

SED has this exactly right.

There's nothing wrong with flying a single engine airplane at night but there's a lot wrong with flying VFR at night over unpopulated/unlit terrain.

Night = IFR except in special circumstances (over cities, full moon, etc)

Now when you add in weather, terrain, low time, a new airplane, etc...