While listening to Channel 9 (ATC) on a recent United flight and in my own dealings with ATC, I've noticed that sometimes they precede an n-number with "november" and sometimes they shorten it to the last three characters. I haven't been able to pick out a pattern yet and I'm wondering why. It doesn't appear to be limited to the initial call-up, one controller's preference, or when another aircraft with a similar number is on frequency either.

For example, on my recent flight the same controller was calling a Citation "N123AB" and a Pilatus "Pilatus 6CD". This was center, but I've also heard the controllers in the local class "C" do the same thing. Why the difference?

My experience is that if the same controller and aircraft have several exchanges it's proper to shorten to the last 3 digits if no other aircraft on the freq are similar. Of course on call up it has to start with the full call sign. I think using "N" is just a formality that sounds professional but has little value. Maybe they are trying to distinguish between US and foreign call signs.

On initial contact ATC may use whatever call sign the aircraft uses, whether it is approved phraseology or not. On subsequent transmissions ATC must use approved phraseology, whether or not the aircraft does. ATC may shorten certain callsigns, such as yours with the N Number. Callsigns that can be shortened have a first name and a last name. The first name may be either November(or other countries letter/number) or the type aircraft/manufacturer, whichever the controller prefers. The last name must be either the full callsign or the last three. ATC may never shorten any callsign with a three letter ID or a military ID.
One quirk of the rulebook is ATC is not required to use the phonetic alphabet for other countries callsigns. Simply stating the letters is approved.

ATC will always, it is the FAA so most always, get a full call sign as they input it into their computer. They can use your full call sign or the last three after that. We are supposed to use our full call sign, with or without November, until they initiate use of only the last three of our call sign. Then we can use just the last three of our call sign. Foreign reg. A/C will always have their country designation letter used.

Jump This is correct (I think Bonanza Man is too, but his transmission became garbled about a third of the way in...) The main thing to remember is to respond with whatever ATC addresses you with. If they call you by your full tail number, you respond with your full tail number. Once they call you with the last three, then it's ok to respond with the last three.

-DP

I always use the full call sign when checking in etc., then revert to the last three. Never had a complaint. I will use Centurion etc. only when on the ground asking for directions from ground or when twr may not know who I am from a tail #. Don't bother with Maule, most of em don't know what one is.
Don't have a clue as to if I'm right or not, but it seems to work.
I think BM is ATC in his day job?

Bonanza Man wrote:Callsigns that can be shortened have a first name and a last name. The first name may be either November(or other countries letter/number) or the type aircraft/manufacturer, whichever the controller prefers. The last name must be either the full callsign or the last three.

I understand I need to use my full call sign initially and then repeat whatever ATC uses after that point. My confusion has to do ACT's seemingly random shortening of the call sign. I think I understand now, but let me make sure...

Let's say I were to use "Skyhawk 123AB" as an initial call. Then I should expect the controller to use "N123AB" on all calls after the initial one because I did not use an aircraft type or manufacturer in my call. If I were to have used "Cessna" instead then the controller would have had the option of shortening it to "Cessna 3AB".

Is that right?




Personally, I prefer using the aircraft model in my call sign. I think it gives a little more insight into who and what is making the call. It's especially helpful in the pattern. If I'm getting ready to enter on a 45 and I hear a Tomahawk turning downwind I might dawdle a little verses hearing a Skylane make the same call. I suppose in a controlled airspace it is less useful when ATC is taking care of spacing.

JRStripe wrote:Let's say I were to use "Skyhawk 123AB" as an initial call. Then I should expect the controller to use "N123AB" on all calls after the initial one because I did not use an aircraft type or manufacturer in my call. If I were to have used "Cessna" instead then the controller would have had the option of shortening it to "Cessna 3AB".

Is that right?

Well you did use a type in your call. You said Skyhawk, that is a type to ATC. You can always use anything legal for your first part....November, Cessna, Skyhawk, etc, at any time, regardless of what ATC uses. Mostly I hear Center use November, I just see them as lazy not using the aircraft type. To me saying November sounds dumb. The aircraft type is right there in front of you so use it. The controller may shorten it to the last three at any time at his discretion.




Personally, I prefer using the aircraft model in my call sign. I think it gives a little more insight into who and what is making the call. It's especially helpful in the pattern. If I'm getting ready to enter on a 45 and I hear a Tomahawk turning downwind I might dawdle a little verses hearing a Skylane make the same call. I suppose in a controlled airspace it is less useful when ATC is taking care of spacing.


I think using the model or manufacturer just sounds more professional however there's no real reason to use anything other than blue Cessna at an uncontrolled field. But that's getting into religious grounds with some people.

A64Pilot wrote:Don't bother with Maule, most of em don't know what one is.

Center guys for sure.

A64Pilot wrote:Don't have a clue as to if I'm right or not, but it seems to work.
I think BM is ATC in his day job?

Yessir, serving the people....

Personally, I prefer using the aircraft model in my call sign. I think it gives a little more insight into who and what is making the call. It's especially helpful in the pattern. If I'm getting ready to enter on a 45 and I hear a Tomahawk turning downwind I might dawdle a little verses hearing a Skylane make the same call. I suppose in a controlled airspace it is less useful when ATC is taking care of spacing[quote]

Big Picture.
Model tells everyone your speed + or - a few knots.
I use it even in controlled airspace. The controller may be busy and not be on top of the "Cessna" Skymaster driving up the rear of the "Cessna" Skyhawk on final.
Models keep everyone who listens in the loop.

BM, what is the update rate on ATC radar? Can a guy slow 40kts before you see it on your screen?

Thanks for the clarification BM. The November always threw me.

I had an instructor when I got recurrent beat the "model" call into my head, instead of the "make". I had not flown in 16 yrs since I got my PPL, and the "make" was perfectly acceptable to my instructor and flight examiner back then.

This guy would get on me every time when I would make the call "Cessna XXXXX..." His rationale was exactly that explained on the forum - Big difference in approach speeds between a 140 and a 340, and it is helpful to the controllers to know what they got out there based on the call. So far it has stuck, but it took quite a bit of retraining from what I learned the first time.

It does seem like the callsign "Skyhawk" is like saying "Yeah, I'm not in any hurry" given the number of times I get "direct to the numbers" and "best possible speed" requests from ATC

flynengr

been flying 121 stuff out of atlanta..

there are so many "delta, citrus, acey's" that you have to use discretion what you call yourself, how long saying it blocks the very busy frequency and requirements by the controllers to get it on tape.


there is also alot of variation on how you say your flight number to start with.

"acey fifty one twenty one" or "acey five one two one" Also you can stress a number to further differentiate who you are.

for the most part the approach controllers in atlanta already know what your thinking before you key the mike.

BM, what is the update rate on ATC radar? Can a guy slow 40kts before you see it on your screen?



Approach control radar makes a sweep every 6 seconds. Center radar every 12 seconds. The answer to your question is no.

This guy would get on me every time when I would make the call "Cessna XXXXX..." His rationale was exactly that explained on the forum - Big difference in approach speeds between a 140 and a 340, and it is helpful to the controllers to know what they got out there based on the call.


You won't be able to hide the fact that you're not a 340 for very long.