This could be a lengthy disscussion.

Needing to upgrade my current panel in the 180.

Need to start with the yoke mounts to obtain a center stack option.

Dont want to much but just enough. 430w is the obvious choice. Have one in my 182 and love it.

dont need the 530

Thinking about the Aspen 1500 pacakge but maybe just the 1000. Any thoughts or experience with it?

I dont fly much IFR but want the option of course...and need to be able to stay current

Is the ASPEN Lighter than the typical Steam gages for basic IFR? Curious??

May just stick with the standard Art horizon and VOR but thinkng both those and the Aspen. Obviously weight is one of my main concerns and spend much more time bouncing around in the dirt.

Avion seems like a good choice to desgin a panel. Any other ideas?

Thanks!

Kevin

Kevin,

Panel design and fabrication has been my dad's second career, working through the repair station at Chief in Grants Pass. He's done several Aspen installations and panel reconfigs on 182's, 210's, Bonanzas, Super Vikings, Barons, you name it. He can at least tell you what will fit and install in your older Cessna yoke config. Is your '53 yoke the T-shape? Have you located a U-shape yoke to replace it with?

The 430 is a nice unit, especially the built in com and nav radio, but unless you are going to do IFR, I'd pass. Get a paneldock or something and put a 696 right in the middle of the panel; Nicer moving map, larger display. It's shallow and requires no yoke change. As far as radios and audio panel, xpndr, whatever... some of those will clear too depending on what units you choose.

It's all how much money you want to spend

Really wanting the center mount radios. Dont like the radios down by my knees. Love the 430 but I dont discredit the 696.

Need the U shaped yokes and my mechanic is on that.

Will be flying IFR when needed but mostly dirt hopping. Just getting ideas now. Doing this when we are in AK for the Heli season in a couple months. Getting ready.

Thanks Zane...funny, but have been all over the chief site looking around

There's a guy who buys & sells 180/182's in Burns OR, kinda like Joe Stancil but on a smaller scale- I can't come up with his name right now (senior moment) but a buddy of mine bought Bub's C180 from him a few years ago. Anyway, one of the things he likes to do with 180's before he resells them is install a center-stack panel-- apparently not STC'd but he has been doing them for some time now, not sure if they're a field approval or just a logbook entry. I'm not even sure if he has to change the control column to a U type, my buddy with Bub's old airplane had a centerstack installed by his mechanic with the T column- it was a close one but it all fit. Anyway, it might be worth giving this guy a call & asking him about it- maybe someone here can supply his name?

Zane-

Needed to do some research on the 696. Seems like a pretty slick unit.
I really like the HSI that comes with the Aspen but spendy. 696 seems like a good option for certain.

696 with the 430waas,1 VOR am looking good. Hmmmm

Really like the Aspen but...

I keep being told I need to switch to the U yokes for certain. Even with a high mounted 430 and a KX155 under it (thats what I have) along with the other a few other items under and over (audio GMA 347 and transponder GTX 330).

Curious what others think there ideal panel is. Not a "dream" panel, just ideal for VFR and basic IFR so I can get in or out). Dont really plan on spending a lot of time flying IFR in a single engine aircraft.

Kevin

Howdy. I've been hanging around out here for a while, enjoying the tales and gossip. This isn't my first post...there were a couple of others regarding the Recreational Aviation Foundation, with which I have been involved with since it's inception; but I thought this would be a good opportunity to introduce myself. I share my roots with some others on this forum, having spent the early years of my flying career in Alaska, before moving on to more mundane hauling of stuff around the world in airplanes that smell bad and make a lot of noise. I'm a professional airplane junkie, A&P mechanic, and the fortunate keeper of a '56 180 and a Champ. The Champ and I have been together for 42 years, and the 180 has been in our hangar here in Yelm, WA for the past twenty or so.

I've done a few panel upgrades on early 180's, including the one in my '56. My goal was to have a light weight panel with a center stack for the radios. Since I live in the Northwest, I needed the capability to fly the airplane IFR, which I do. I built the panel to handle the ASPEN EFD1000, but I keep spending the Aspen dollars on Avgas instead, and I think I may just continue to do that.

My panel, which you can see on my "parking spot" at the 180/185 website http://www.skywagons.org/gallery/view_p ... d=It_works was done without any change to the control "T", and there was enough room for the 430, audio panel, and Garmin SL40 above the "T". I have a Garmin AERA 560 mounted below the other radios, and it gives the look of a full avionics stack, without having anything interfere with the control "T". If you poke around my other pictures and albums on that website, you'll find some photos I took when I built the panel, and maybe a few others of interest.

Thanks for all the entertainment and wisdom. I'll look forward to meeting some of you in the back country.

Mike

Mike:

Nice looking panel! I really appreciate seeing what pilots have done to upgrade these older but still mechanically capable planes. The WAAS technology is amazing......It's incredible to think of someday shooting precision approaches to <300' minimums into thousands of airports across the country in a 50+ year old airplane, not just those airports with an ILS. Backcountry VFR flying is absolutely where its at, but having more tools and versatility in an airplane never hurt.

Kevin:

Your panel wish list matches mine exactly - 430W, KX155, 330 and 347. That seems to be the ideal stack for the type of flying you describe.

Looking at Mike's panel and other converted Cessnas from the mid 50's, I was wondering if there is more room available with the redesign panel in 1959 with the side by side stack arrangement? I suppose it isn't exactly an ideal configuration compared to a true center stack, but just thinking it might offer some more options.

Flynengr

Mike that is really great! How much does that nice looking chrome 180 weigh? Looks light!

Just what I am looking for.

This could be a cool thread. Would be great to see what others have done. Similar to the interior thread we have as well.

Flynenger- I think thats what I will end up doing, but Mikes looks really nice. Still like the Aspen....gotta get it a past the wife somehow...

Ha! I promised her I wouldn't tell. Truth is that once the solvents are gone, paint doesn't weigh much, but heavy duty engine mounts, 185 gear legs, 8.50 tires, six bolt wheels, extended baggage compartments, and the like all add up. Even with the firewall battery, F. Atlee Dodge seats, and light weight interior, she still weighs about a hundred pounds more that Clyde's guys said she weighed when she left the factory. Even so, the airplane flys as nice as any 180 I have flown.

Mike

Just a couple of quick points from somebody who flies an airplane that has as it's "glass" an ipad....

WAAS approaches require a dual installation (legally, that is), a single GPS is fine for all the other approaches.
ADS-B is coming, I see you mention the 330 transponder, might as well look into adding the ADS-B box now so you don't have to tear into the airplane again.

There's an outfit in California named Avion Research that sells new instrument panels for Cessna aircraft, and they USED to modify the T-style yokes to the U-configuration, under STC on at least some models. Here's a link: http://www.avion.com/ContactUs/contactus.html

They're not cheap, but I've seen some of their work, and it is top notch. They are the only ones I've heard of that have been sort of routinely modifying the yokes with FAA approval. Give em a call.


MTV

"stewartb" on the supercub.org forum recently updated the panel in his C-180. He posted some pictures and discussion of the considerations that were important to him, and you might find his thoughts useful.

Atkahoe,

You might also want to take a look at the Garmin G-500 retrofit glass panel as an alternative to the Aspen installation. It will require more extensive panel modification than the Aspen, which is designed to be a slide-in replacement for the steam gages, which is it's main advantage. But the Garmin unit seems to be superior in most other respects.

Having seen the G500 and the Aspen side by side at a vendor booth, I clearly like the bigger screen presentation of the G500 over the smallish vertical "portrait" style Aspen screens. And the Garmin provides synthetic vision, which is not yet available on the Aspen (I hear they're working on it). Interestingly too, the Garmin G500 is very price competitive with the Aspen .... pehaps even a tad cheaper. The G500 is also designed to link up with all the usual avionics and autopilot equipment too.

If I were going to spring for the price of a glass panel (I probably won't, on my old Cherokee 180, anyway), I want a screen that is much larger and easier to read on a bumpy flight than is available from yolk-mount units like my Anywhere Map ATC ... otherwise, why pay $12-20K when you can get about 90% of the capability in a small yolk-mounted unit for under a grand?

Duane

porterjet wrote:Just a couple of quick points from somebody who flies an airplane that has as it's "glass" an ipad....

WAAS approaches require a dual installation (legally, that is), a single GPS is fine for all the other approaches.
ADS-B is coming, I see you mention the 330 transponder, might as well look into adding the ADS-B box now so you don't have to tear into the airplane again.

Not sure where the information came from regarding the dual installation. Clearly, there are situations where ops specs require dual receivers, but to the best of my knowledge, when flying a part 23 aircraft under FAR 91, all of the WAAS approaches can be legally flown with one 430W installed and operating.

Mike

http://www.waasfms.com/

If I read this correctly, only the Gulf Stream needs the dual install. Maybe 58skylane wants to add that to the list of dream x-country planes. I would sure like to have one!!

I dont think the 430 or 530 needs the dual instal.

Please correct me if I am wrong

Once again I have to agree with MTV.
This time it is in regards to Avion.
Actually it is Avion Research. Trevor started with his own 180hp C170B. I did his original marketing photos in the mid 80s. I got to be his "test" pilot after he finished the Bush conversion and the the column conversion with panel upgrade at the same time. He had not flown for a while. His has a clean shop with modern equipment that accepts inputs from autocad type files. Can't remember if they are plasma cut or water jet cut. He has you send a sketch, then he puts it all into autocad and sends you a copy for your additional inputs and or approval. It was amazing to learn how much was / is involved in getting an STC. He started with the Cessna lines that needed the "T" column converted to a "U" column. I am aware that there are several sources now for panels, but I do not know it they have the STC authorizations to convert the columns. He now has all sorts of stuff for several lines. Even has some special lighting options.
I have his yokes in my 170. Not cheap but very comfortable for a larger hand.

Chris C.

hotrod150 wrote: There's a guy who buys & sells 180/182's in Burns OR, ....one of the things he likes to do with 180's before he resells them is install a center-stack panel.... it might be worth giving this guy a call & asking him about it....

I came up with his name (I think)- Doug Campbell.
A buddy of mine has a U-column for a C180, along with some or all of an Avion centerstack kit he wouldn't mind selling. If anyone's interested, shoot me an email or PM & I'll get you in touch with him.

Just sent you a PM hotrod.

Thanks!

Kevin

hotrod150 wrote:

hotrod150 wrote: There's a guy who buys & sells 180/182's in Burns OR, ....one of the things he likes to do with 180's before he resells them is install a center-stack panel.... it might be worth giving this guy a call & asking him about it....

I came up with his name (I think)- Doug Campbell.
A buddy of mine has a U-column for a C180, along with some or all of an Avion centerstack kit he wouldn't mind selling. If anyone's interested, shoot me an email or PM & I'll get you in touch with him.

With all due respect, I would highly recommend some homework on that deal. Avion Research has gone to a lot of expense and trouble to certify the installation, and without their STC, obtaining a field approval for the change to the control system, using their parts may prove troublesome. Perhaps the company would work with you, and sell you the paperwork...but I would line those ducks up before I spent the money. Just my $.02

Mike

I completed a panel upgrade in my '79 185 last november. Here's what I went with:
Aspen PFD
Garmin 430 waas
Garmin 696
garmin SL30
Alpha Angle of Attack

I love the aspen panel, it drives my autopilot like a champ and made my IFR training almost too easy.
The only thing about the aspen is I had replaced 2 head units due to problems. Their customer service was absolutely top notch, though, and I have had no problems since straightening it out.

-Brad