Greetings All: I'm recently flying a Rans S7S taildragger (100hp Rotax) with more recently installed 26" Airstreaks, 8" Matco tailwheel; empty/gross weight 800/1320 lbs (pic below). I'm really getting the feel for the plane, confidence is building and have been doing wheel landings exclusively. My mission this summer is to explore remote beaches of L. Superior. I've never attempted a beach landing, but for the first attempt I have scouted a really nice level, wide, firm, 1/4 long stretch (pic below). I plan on deflating the tires down to 7 psi to maximize foot print area and wheel land on my first attempt. Later, I hope to conquer tougher beaches (and more desirable due to their remoteness) which will be narrower, have some cross slope and perhaps softer. Due to L. Superior frigidity, plant growth/organics is nil. Beach reaches vary between sand, gravel and rock; occasional drift wood present. I saw a past BCP beach landing thread, but due to substantial drift, decided to start a new one. Would appreciate any and all input, including the "gotcha's". Particularly interested into what degree of soft sand my current rig will handle. Thanks! Rob.

I usually run 4 lbs, at least that is my lower limit. I pump them up to 6, and as they gradually lower to 4 it's time to get the compressor out. That's when I'm light anyway, and flying 100% off airport. 8 is my personal max if loaded and going XC and having to land at controlled airports with no turf available (and I avoid them like the plague).

I always, ALWAYS, three point but that's me.....I like crashing as slow as possible at all times, but starting out on sand of unknown consistancy I'd run the tires along them just like I do on snow when on skis. You'll get a good feel for what's going on before fully committing, thats the idea any way! A little junk in the rear of the baggage compartment won't hurt either. Min fuel the first few times won't hurt either. All in all you'll be amazed with what the tires will allow you to land in, having said that I'm also sure there is some sand out there that may have your name on it, thus the getting a feel first before chopping the throttle. Let us know how it goes!

Thx for the reply Tom. Heard from several S7 flyrs And they all reiterated same thing about dragging landing area first. So my plan is to touchdown w/mains at flying/typ. Liftoff speed and drag beach landing area. By virtue of this operation, I can assess landing conditions with ability to get the hell out before commiting. I can then return to land at min. Airspeed and thinking a tail low touchdown w/ conversion to wheel landing. This config would oppose pitch fwd tendency plus keep tailwheel out of the sand: my current plan. More feedback appreciated.

I'm no expert here, but here are some things I have figured out:

1) Wet sand is harder than dry sand. The stuff right next to the water is where you want to land on a receding tide. No idea how that works for lakes.

2) The darker the sand, the harder the sand. Rule 1 still applies.

3) Gravel is great, but watch for overly large rocks hidden in there.

4) Sticks and branches and any other debris is a heck of a lot larger than it looks on a flyby. Watch for that stuff when you drag through on your first approach.

5) Fly a normal approach. On Downwind, Base, and Final look for anything that might get in the way. This includes animals. They are unpredictable as heck, so just know if there are any in the vicinity.


I will upload pictures when I remember how to again.

Think you are on the right track. Only thing I could add is that I don't like to spend too much time making passes at a proposed landing site. If I make a pass or two and still can't decide then move on. It ain't worth it.

You can see the waves just off the beach. The shiny stuff is water-saturated sand. That is the place you want to be. The dark stuff to the right and above that is still hard, but losing it's water and becoming softer. The light stuff is where not to land. It is soft.



Me landing on that just a minute later. I dragged for a bout 200 feet before commiting, but admittedly was going way to fast for a beach landing in this picture. It was also my first one ever.



Montague Island, San Juan Bay in Prince William Sound. Nice hard sand when it is wet, but when it dried and when I was taxiing aboove the tide line, I had to keep my yoke forward to keep the tailwheel from anchoring me.



Not sure what your tie-down plan is, but this is what I did.

http://youtu.be/mVZ7Kmj89EA

Always do a pass or two when its unfamiliar. Wheels landings are preferred for me. The tail can act as a great break when its soft and deep.

http://www.bigtirepilot.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/IMG_4246.jpg

AKT

907Pilot, that's a great picture showing the condition of the sand. I've never landed on a beach, but it would seem to me that while wet sand is indeed the firmest, if you're at the ocean you would be better off landing on the dark sand that is just damp, if possible. Salt water and aluminum are not the best of friends, and I wouldn't want to be splashing it up where it will get into every crevice and crack.

You are correct and I am re-reading and I didn't explain it well. The stuff that is shiny doesn't actually have water standing on top of it, it is just super-saturated. It is the stuff that (in my limited experience) has the least amount of kick up from it as well. Go to the actual water and you have splash, go to the dark stuff you have sand that has dried out enough to kick up, but is till pretty tough.

It's like when you go clamming, or castle building. That stuff that is just barely above the tide line is the greatest for using because it sticks in the clam gun, or in the castle-building buckets.

907Pilot wrote:

You can see the waves just off the beach. The shiny stuff is water-saturated sand. That is the place you want to be. The dark stuff to the right and above that is still hard, but losing it's water and becoming softer. The light stuff is where not to land. It is soft.



Me landing on that just a minute later. I dragged for a bout 200 feet before commiting, but admittedly was going way to fast for a beach landing in this picture. It was also my first one ever.



Montague Island, San Juan Bay in Prince William Sound. Nice hard sand when it is wet, but when it dried and when I was taxiing aboove the tide line, I had to keep my yoke forward to keep the tailwheel from anchoring me.



Not sure what your tie-down plan is, but this is what I did.

907pilot: great info and lesson, thanks for taking the time to share your technique via pics and captions!

Have never been in a RS7 but a couple of times in my past life I have landed on the beach.
Just as I think most landings should be, have the tail wheel about 2 inches off the ground and always be ready for a wheel grap either side or both! Be ready to come in with all the power if it wants to tip the tail up with no brakes and full up on the flippers, some times full power will keep from ruining the beacon on top of the rudder!
Have fun!
If you get any salt water on it you can rinse it off on a fresh water lake!?

GT

The wet sand is not always the best bet on ocean beaches. Like most off airport operations, conditions vary considerably, depending on where you operate.

Out on the Alaska Peninsula, for example, bull kelp washes up frequently, then is covered by sand, leaving big balls of decaying kelp, covered by sand. These are next to impossible to see from the air, and they can provide a real surprise when you find one with a wheel. Landing high on the beaches puts you in the dry stuff, which tends to have more visible surprises, meaning you can avoid them. Loose dry sand isn't a problem IF the airplane is properly equipped with appropriate flotation type tires.

But, as I noted earlier, every area has it's hazards and safer areas. You really need to learn the beaches in the area you're working. On Kodiak, for example, the entire place is a huge rock, and beaches tend to be really solid, and nice landing sites, except many of them are pretty steep. But, on the south end of the island, there are a couple of pretty sandy beaches near the mouth of the Red River.

Learn the area, put your toe in a LITTLE bit at a time, and whatever you do, don't get that tail as high as in the photo of that 170 posted earlier unless you absolutely know the beach is solid.

Roll those wheels on a little at a time....lightly on the first pass, slightly more pressure on the second pass, etc, until you're comfortable that you've explored it well.

Then, land in your tracks!! I can't emphasize that enough. If you pioneer a landing zone with your tires, then come around and land five feet to one side of those tracks you put down, it can be a whole new ball game. Land on what you pioneer.

MTV

Learn the area, put your toe in a LITTLE bit at a time, and whatever you do, don't get that tail as high as in the photo of that 170 posted earlier unless you absolutely know the beach is solid.

Roll those wheels on a little at a time....lightly on the first pass, slightly more pressure on the second pass, etc, until you're comfortable that you've explored it well.

Then, land in your tracks!! I can't emphasize that enough. If you pioneer a landing zone with your tires, then come around and land five feet to one side of those tracks you put down, it can be a whole new ball game. Land on what you pioneer.

X10 what MTV said!!!
GT

I'm no big off-airport guy (although I have landed on some ocean beaches) but personally I would want to three-point NOT wheel land on any surface that might be soft. I know of several people who've nosed over in snow that was deeper &/or wetter than expected & I think wheel-landing was a factor each time. Don't see why softer-than-expected beach sand would be any different.
Sounds like you wanna wheel-land mainly to keep your tailwheel outa the sand? I wouldn't worry about that too much, it'll wash off.

HotRod
Scenario1
What happens when you have a wheel dig in on one side and you have the tailwheel buried in the sand (There goes the Gear box)
2
When the right tire is sinking into the sand 4"s and the tail wheel is 6" in the sand and the right tire runs up over that buried log?
My $.02
When you are scouting and pioneering your landing spot, you can not do it 3 point . If you have a problem you are committed to landing, and you will!
Soft snow and soft sand are to completely different monsters , so are all the rest that are in between! Everyone of these landings are a different program. There is never a (just a right way to do it, fits all procedure!).
Experience will get you there! The sand on the Norton sound, Cook Inlet, Lake Superior, Middle of the Ohio River Bar, all may look the same but probably are not !!??
The most important part is to go out and enjoy your bird!!

GT

mtv wrote:The wet sand is not always the best bet on ocean beaches. Like most off airport operations, conditions vary considerably, depending on where you operate.

Out on the Alaska Peninsula, for example, bull kelp washes up frequently, then is covered by sand, leaving big balls of decaying kelp, covered by sand. These are next to impossible to see from the air, and they can provide a real surprise when you find one with a wheel. Landing high on the beaches puts you in the dry stuff, which tends to have more visible surprises, meaning you can avoid them. Loose dry sand isn't a problem IF the airplane is properly equipped with appropriate flotation type tires.

But, as I noted earlier, every area has it's hazards and safer areas. You really need to learn the beaches in the area you're working. On Kodiak, for example, the entire place is a huge rock, and beaches tend to be really solid, and nice landing sites, except many of them are pretty steep. But, on the south end of the island, there are a couple of pretty sandy beaches near the mouth of the Red River.

Learn the area, put your toe in a LITTLE bit at a time, and whatever you do, don't get that tail as high as in the photo of that 170 posted earlier unless you absolutely know the beach is solid.

Roll those wheels on a little at a time....lightly on the first pass, slightly more pressure on the second pass, etc, until you're comfortable that you've explored it well.

Then, land in your tracks!! I can't emphasize that enough. If you pioneer a landing zone with your tires, then come around and land five feet to one side of those tracks you put down, it can be a whole new ball game. Land on what you pioneer.

MTV

MTV: Really like the step-wise "pioneer" approach of blazing a trail with increasing wheel pressure with each pass on an unknown landing area, makes good intuitive sense. Thanks!

907 Pilot I took that picture of your plane on Hinchenbrook. You might be pretty surprised at all the salt spray the planes pick up there. Most everyone including a Amphib 185! landed just on the dry part and it was fine. The Posters Rans and big tires could probably land anywhere on that beach (the plane can do it, the pilot I have no idea, I relate!) What I have found in my limited time exploring the sound is that no two beaches are the same even though they may look at feel like it.

Many thanks to all who replied on this thread. The discussion was great and I feel ready for the mission this weekend. I also feel like I can wear, with pride, my lettered BCP apparel purchased earlier from Zane's thriving on-line merchandising venue

Good luck Rob! Get pics.