Does anybody know if it's illegal to land on the beach in Florida on say a deserted barrier island that is not some kind of wildlife refuge etc? The type that has no structures, people or anything. I know that the beach is public property up to the mean high tide limit, but I don't know if airplanes are prohibited.

Land there, see if you get a ticket, and if you do, warn the rest of us...

Simple.

Gump

Gump,

GREAT advice, Dude !!

a64,

Start out by contacting the Florida state division of aeronautics, here: Sr. Transportation Planner

Florida Aviation Office

605 Suwannee St., MS-46

Tallahassee, FL 32399-0450

904-488-8444
904-922-4942 FAX

Contact: Mr. Bill Sherry, Manager

Then, I'd get in touch with the Florida Game Commission, at: http://www.floridaconservation.org/

That will be a good start. There are going to be federal agencies involved in some places, as well, and I can almost guarantee you that ANY lands managed by a federal conservation area (of which there are many in Florida) will be off limits to the landing of aircraft.

Then, there is the question of "Below Ordinary High Water". Not sure who owns the tidelands below ordinary high water in Florida, but I'd ask the Florida Game Commission specifically for that information. If some agency such as Florida Game Commission owns the beach below ordinary high water, then if they permit aircraft ops, you may be golden, as long as you stay below ordinary high water.

That sometimes gets difficult to determine, as well, though.

Good luck.

MTV

If you ask that many agencies the answer will be no. Not because it is illegal but because it they do not know the answer. If you ask, use sombody elses name so that when you give up and go anyway.

Also, small N numbers

Tim

Thanks guy's,
I will call, but I will probably use one of our "temporary" N numbers we use to deliver aircraft overseas. Unfortunately small N numbers aren't an option, the Maule isn't old enough yet. Any kind of charted "conservation" area would be stupid even to try.
In Florida it's "mean high tide", not sure what mean, means but I always thought it was the highest tide you ever got. The Guv'mint owns below that. I know because I used to own some property and the beach below that point is public, anyone has as much right there as anybody else. There is no such thing as a "private" beach, even as much as the big condo's etc try to make you believe that there isn't. They can restrict acsses through their land, but their property line stops at the mean high tide line.
I'm in Panama City Beach "redneck riveria" now with the family and have been reminded that I don't really like people and am wondering if I couldn't just fly out to a tiny island and spend the day there.

Head to the localest airport, look for a taildragger, & ask the pilot about it.

Hey , if you land on the beach and get questioned by the authorities , Just make sure you come up with a good believable story. Say you where enjoying the beautiful flight along the coast and "Damn" , you "thought" you heard something strange coming from the engine compartment and decided to make an "immediate" percoutionary landing ! But, then again this might open a whole nother can of worms ! Anyway, just thought I'd have fun here .

a64pilot wrote:Unfortunately small N numbers aren't an option, the Maule isn't old enough yet.

A64,

How old does it have to be?

Without looking to be sure, 30 years IIRC. At 30 years, it's an antique and therefore subject to those regs. That's my interpretation and I think it's the correct one.

58Skylane wrote:Hey , if you land on the beach and get questioned by the authorities , Just make sure you come up with a good believable story. Say you where enjoying the beautiful flight along the coast and "Damn" , you "thought" you heard something strange coming from the engine compartment and decided to make an "immediate" percoutionary landing ! But, then again this might open a whole nother can of worms ! Anyway, just thought I'd have fun here .

It's just hard to swallow that tale with all of the beach and snorkeling gear etc. If there is no direct reg against it, then it's fair game in my book. Usually if your professional, friendly and courteous, you can get away with most anything that's not stupid.

a64pilot wrote:Usually if your professional, friendly and courteous, you can get away with most anything that's not stupid.

How long you been in the military and dealing with bureaucrats?!?! Go smack yourself !!!!!!!!!



Gump

GumpAir wrote:

a64pilot wrote:Usually if your professional, friendly and courteous, you can get away with most anything that's not stupid.

How long you been in the military and dealing with bureaucrats?!?! Go smack yourself !!!!!!!!!



Gump

Your right of course once it get's past the LEO and into the"system". I was speaking of the cop in uniform type. I haven't really had many dealings with them, but most of the time they start off expecting you to be an Ass, but if your not sometimes they aren't either.
I don't expect that of course, but if I'm caught with my hand in the cookie jar, I intend to be nice and respectful.

Got a grrrrreat idea. Go to the Mooney forum, use Zane's name and write a great article about your trip to this far away island paradise. In the article you say that upon landing you were greeted by Auto Shmidlap of National Fish and Wildlife. He said that this is the perfect spot for such activity.

Take the article with you on your trip for an alibi

Tim

Dang, Gump!!!! I dang near spit beer all over this keyboard. Now, THAT was a classic line!

MTV

I think it is illegal to land on a beach in Oregon. I could be wrong but, I don't think so. Bob

And, that, specifically: "I think it is illegal to land on a beach in Oregon. I could be wrong but, I don't think so. " is why I suggested to go DIRECTLY to the source of enforcement and the responsible land management agency.

I can tell you from experience, folks, that you will get LOTS of information on this via the internet, and MOST Of it will be flat wrong. But, the good news is that NONE of it means a dang thing .

I have worked for a land management agency. I've had people lecture me at length, after I contacted them, that it was perfectly legal for them to land their airplane there, cause they were told so by their brother in law--a guy named Bubba. To which I replied, "Gee, my office woulda told you the same dang thing, only it would be official". That kind of response takes the starch right outta a big argument.

The point is this: There are a LOT of different flavors of law enforcement officers out there, county sherrif deputy, highway patrol, city police, various land management agency types, and on and on. In my experience, most county deputies don't know ANYthing about land management rules, but they assume everything is illegal until proven wrong by a court.

SOOOOO, let's assume you talk to the Florida Aeronautics folks. Tell them about a certain beach you'd like to land on. They tell you who the landowner is, which is, say the State. You call whoever there, and ask the question, and they say "go for it".

You are landing on the beach and a county mountie shows up (sorry to pick on the Sherrif's offices here, could be anyone), and starts asking you questions about the legalities of landing there. You give him or her a name and phone number. Conversation over, essentially, cause he'll have dispatch call the number.

That's a whole lot better than landing somewhere based on internet information, and the same thing happens....."Uh, Officer, I read that it was legal on the internet from some guy in Iowa".

If you are really serious about landing on a beach, call the state, and start looking for GOOD information.

MTV

Don't know if it changes anything, but it seems to me the only people who would stumble across an airplane on a beach to begin with are narcotics officers. I guarantee they don't give a crap about land use laws, and they don't carry ticket books. Just keep your windows closed so the interior doesn't fill up with sand when the blackhawk lands.

No, any cop that might happen to wander by is apt to stop & quiz ya: state or national park service, forest service, DNR, BLM, city cop, county mountie, game warden, tribal cop, border patrol, .... just depends on where you are. Just because they may or may not have any jurisdiction over you or what you're doing doesn't mean they won't stop & check you out. A couple years ago, we had a county mountie start putting crime scene tape on an airplane that had bellied in at our airport when he stopped to check it out & the owner wasn't on-scene (he was rounding up help to get it up & off the runway). He didn't want to back off either, and turned into a PITA before he finally left (without helping ).

Eric

Local cops, I think I can handle as long as I have the official permission and a telephone number as MTV suggested. I'll call monday, thanks for the contacts.
JUST DON'T GET ME STARTED ON THE CBP, those people are dangerous and are the one agency that I have run into that seriously has me worried.

Maybe I'm completely out of line.....but I have had many dealings with the law (most outside of airplanes and in my college fraternity house) but these many dealings have tought me one thing....

Better to ask forgiveness,
than to ask permission

And when faced with asking forgiveness being very nice and cooperative has gotten my much further than any other approach many have been tried...one not so sucessful encounter started by me stating to the police officer leading me down the stairs viemently "you'll never take me alive copper" I proceded to make a break for it only to realize I was on stairs. I was later told that it was one of the hardest falls down the stairs anyone had ever seen.

Upon further inspection alcohol and pilot error played a role in the crash

Happy 4th

Mike

A-64, I flew for the FL fish and game law enforcement in the 80's so this infro my not be any good. The fish and game law enforcement is the state police for Florida. They are most likely who you would encounter so I would contact the aviation dept. in Tallahassee . Try to talk to a pilot ( a LT.) and if anyone ask's just refer to the LT. you spoke to and that should do it as everyone (diferent agencys) get along very well and respect each other. Good luck. Tom