MTV has some good points concerning the Cub...you may also consider a 235 hp or 260 hp Maule for your needs as well. It will get you in and out of most things that a SC will do, but it is cheaper to acquire, easy to work on, and will haul more stuff.

-Chris

That is why I brought up the lycoming and third seat STCs for the birddog there is also a up gross available.
I am interisted in the maule but hear horror stories about high stall speeds on final and poor performance when loaded.
I realise they take off like a rocket when empty but am not convinced of safe operation when heavy maybe the M7 is better in that respect I dont have any experience with them.

Maule's are just like any other aircraft with regards to handling well when operated within it's design envelope. I have not noticed any problems with our MX-7-180 at max gross. I usually fly final around 60 - 65 with 40 degrees of flaps and then drop the remaining flaps to 48 degrees when crossing the fence and she slows down like you dropped an anchor. 3 -point it in the flair and dump the flaps to 0 at touchdown and your golden. I consistently have to add power to make the first turn-off at 800 feet...how much shorter do you want to be? She can be back out of their at max gross between 600 & 800 feet depending on the temp & density altitude.

Keep in mind that I am not an expert Maule pilot by any stretch and our Maule is stock so I am sure that there are those who can greatly improve on those numbers.

BTW - with 70 gallons of usable fuel on board and only burning an average of 8 gph...well you get the idea as to the range. We tanker fuel most places since we burn MoGas, but for local flying we leave the tips empty to increase our useful interior load.

ccurrie,

Okay, one more time: Do you intend that the load that you describe has to go into this place in one trip???? You keep stating the task, but you leave out the parameters. A Kitfox could do that job, with no further parameters. Also, describe the strip, specifically. Calling something a "supercub strip" is meaningless. I've seen folks describe 800 feet of pool table smooth gravel bar as a "super Cub strip". How long, what altitude, up hill, down hill, obstacles, etc.

If you want to do that in one load and go into ACTUAL, NO S+=T Super Cub strips, start looking at a Bell Jet Ranger which will do the job, but there isn't anything else in my experience that will.

MTV

MTV wrote: A 747 with a couple hundred gallons of gas and a minimum crew is a hell of a STOL machine. But that's not what we do with them.

Not to enter another dimension here but...a couple hundred gallons of jet fuel at a standard density of 6.8 lbs/gallon would net 1360 pounds of fuel. Fuel flow at max takeoff power in a 747-400 is over 100,000 pounds per hour. That means you'll have slightly less than 49 seconds of fuel. Short STOL flight.

Mr. Ed wrote: Fuel flow at max takeoff power in a 747-400 is over 100,000 pounds per hour. That means you'll have slightly less than 49 seconds of fuel. Short STOL flight.

Go straight up, land straight down. Sounds STOL to me...

STOL was a typo. He meant to say "S-O-L"!

Ok most of the strips are at least 400 foot gravelbars lots of dead ends and yes it would have to be in one trip or there would be no advantage over the two supercubs doing it now. Most of the strips are below 3000 asl but there are some mountain top stuff. A bell 47 would be perfect except for the laws against using rotorcraft for outfitting.
The only problem with two cubs is the need for a second pilot, the advantage is obvious from a safty standpoint ,in a remote location, so that is why the two cubs for now.
I realise nothing else does exactaly what a cub does not even a two seater but somthing that would do the job would shure save a lot of maintenance [and lack of good pilot ]problems.

ccurrie,

Thanks for the specific job description. In my opinion, that is Cub work, pure and simple, if you've described it accurately.

I would not take a Maule into 400 foot one ways for hire, or probably even with YOUR airplane for fun.

Again, that sounds like Cub, Husky, Scout work.

The L-19 is a Cessna. It has precisely the same wing as a late 170/early 180. It has the same stall characteristics as those aircraft. I would NEVER consider taking one of those aircraft into this size one way strip, for hire or not.

You seem to be trying to make the L-19 something it's not. As I noted, the wing is precisely (that means NO difference) the same as the other early Cessnas. The one exception is that the flaps deploy one more segment. That does not change the stall characteristics much, if any. DOn't get me wrong, the early Cessnas, kept light, are pretty good STOL machines. But they are not Cubs. And, you aren't talking about working the airplane light, either.

Take a look at the stall speed of the L-19. If you think you can work that into and out of 400 foot one ways, more power to you.

MTV

If you are set on a cessna, there is only one that I would recomend.

http://avia.russian.ee/helicopters_eng/ ... seneca.php

Tim

I am starting to agree with you my personal plane is a cessna 170B with a sportsman STOL I can get into 800 or even 600 feet but 400 is just to tight even at 1300lb plus one or two people. I guess we are stuck with the two cubs until we can afford a turbine beaver and a bulldozer ha ha.

have a question for the Bird dog people. I didn't get to spend much time looking at the one Siai Marchetti I saw a few months back. Most of it was gawking at the long pointy nose and wondering how cool that must be
I did notice that it had the extra door, and the square tail. But it didn't appear to be a 172, 180, or 185 tail. Does anyone here know if they have a trimmable stab, or trimtab elevator?
Thanks in advance, Rob

I dont know much about the turbine birddogs (except that I want one more than anything). A guy in australia bought 60 or more of them from the Itilian air force apairently a few made it to the US I have never seen one for sale though.

Good luck with that load in an L-19. The other point is that the original engine in the L-19 is getting hard to maintain. As a consequence, a lot of these folks are being forced to go to different engines.

I still say, without reservation, that comparable loads considered, a good light 180 will outperform an L-19. That is stock airplane to stock airplane.

Comparable loads is the ONLY way you can compare two aircraft fairly, assuming, as this gent has, that you have a specific load to carry.

Oh, yeah, there are a bunch of aftermarket outfits that support the 180. There's basically one that supports the L-19, I believe. If you are WORKING the airplane, that makes a big difference as well.

MTV

Wing hard points would be neat. On those wing hard points you can carry mountain bikes or look really cool and mount your guns. I saw two planes land once at Watson Lake with wing mounted baggage tubes, shaped and painted like missels, complete with fins.

I've flown my buddies L19 and it's fun to approach the runway end at pattern altitude then dump those 60 degree flaps and land. JG

mtv wrote:I still say, without reservation, that comparable loads considered, a good light 180 will outperform an L-19. That is stock airplane to stock airplane.

MTV

There is no doubt here! You are correct, also correct about the 170 tail on the dog being one of its weak points. Back to my question, do you know if the tail on the Siai is a 180 / 185 tail? or is it just a squared 170 tail. The Siai is still not a 4 place, but for the majority of my flying I don't even need a 2 place....I have seen several for sale, in my humble way of thinking, this airplane in competent hands could be the poormans hybrid of a supercub and a porter. And I really like the sound of that.
Now if I just had "competent hands"

Rob wrote:have a question for the Bird dog people. I didn't get to spend much time looking at the one Siai Marchetti I saw a few months back. Most of it was gawking at the long pointy nose and wondering how cool that must be
I did notice that it had the extra door, and the square tail. But it didn't appear to be a 172, 180, or 185 tail. Does anyone here know if they have a trimmable stab, or trimtab elevator?
Thanks in advance, Rob

At the airport i work at, klwm we have a bunch of the turbine bird dogs, but only 2 complete and flying, and im still tryin to get some time in one...
heres the specs

Allison 250-350 HP
Hartzell 3 Blade Props / Full Feather and Reverse


(4) 20 Gallon tanks with transfer pumps
Electric trim elevator and aileron
Electric flaps = 60 degree
Provisions for hydraulic skis
Full military camouflage paint with original military markings
Bomb racks
Electric instruments
170 KTS
1700 ft. per minute climb
21,000 ft. ceiling
400 ft. to 400 ft. landing
Dual controls


Tom

dual controles are they still tandum with sticks?

Yep, next time im at work ill try to rember my camera and get some pics if you'd like

Tom