Was hangar flying today with a couple local pilots, one of them is restoring a supercub from a pre-welded and powdercoated fuselage, and a brand new set of prefab wings. The reason I say "restoring" is because he has a crashed supercub that hes using some parts from...the main one being a dataplate

This got me to thinking...I'm mechanically inclined, have a surplus of spare time, have access to many specialized tools with advice from A&P's I work with, and am fortunate to have some cash on hand to potentially get started on a such a project.

This would be an Experimental build for the sole reason that it's getting harder and harder to get any A&P/IA to sign off an annual these days. I have 3 local IA's that Im friends with but none of them will touch my certified Cessna 140 due to our good friend "Mr. Liability" I am plenty capable of working on my own aircraft safely, and wish to do so on my next plane...I know my limitations and always seek the advice of an A&P if I don't know what I'm doing.

A few thoughts:
Cost: I realize I could buy a good cub for the same price or maybe a little cheaper, but I would end up with a plane that I know inside and out and is not 50 years old with a questionable background

Time: It's alot faster to buy a used plane and fly right now, but I have the time to dedicate to this project and if I start with a pre-fab fuselage and wings, I believe I could finish this plane in 12 - 15 months. Plus I still have the 140 and a fulltime flying job to satisfy my flying needs in the meantime.

Configuration: I decide what instruments, equipment and mods go on the airplane, instead of buying somebody elses airplane, always wanting to change this or that, but being such a pain in the ass to do...mostly because when you start changing little things, you inevitably discover other problems that need addressing in the process....do it right the first time!!

Any of you guys ever build a plane this way? What are the problems you ran into? What can I expect?

Thanks for any advice!!

Aaron

If I had the time and money, I'd do it in a heartbeat. Unfortunately I don't have enough of either right now. For a Supercub, it makes a tremendous amount of sense to go experimental.

Where are you located in CA? My IA lets me assist with annuals and will review/sign off my work. I usually like more of his assistance than he thinks is needed, but that's just me. I'd rather have him looking over every step.

Flynengr

Funny, I had never considered this till this until this morning and then I saw your post!

I am strongly considering this for a second plane myself.

Right?!?!? Start off with a few big parts built by professionals with proper jigs, and start bolting on the little stuff til you have an airlane ready to cover It really seems too simple, and I'm sure I'm missing something that will be a dealbreaker...hence my inquiry here!

Flynengr...I'm in King City south of Salinas on the 101, with roots in the Modesto area. My IA lets me help too but he's an hour flight away...between the scheduling conflicts, and getting rides back and forth, it becomes a real pain in the ass. I just flew it back home a few days ago but now my spare vehicle is stuck over there If I had an experimental plane, on of the local A&P's could have come by my hangar for a day, checked over the plane and noted any discrepancies, then I could fix them and sign them off as needed!!! Instead, I had to go back and forth 3 times, taking care of a flap control fitting that was cracked because a previous "FAA certified A&P" failed to repair it properly the first time, and paying $250 for some part that....ugh, nevermind rant over

Of course I'm trying to justify my reasons for building an experimental cub that I can maintain myself, but isn't that previous scenario just one example of one of the most frustrating parts of aviation?!?! It is for me...

I'm not saying I know it all and I'm not knocking A&P's either. Theres some out there that have forgotten more than I'll ever know about fixing airplanes...but at the same time, I've met some that I wouldn't trust to fix my lawnmower. Just like I know some pilots that I would never let a friend or family member fly with...

Go to www.Supercub.org and look up all the threads by Bill Rusk.
He's built one and through some unfortunate circumstances is now
Building another. Lots of info there.
Dave

d.grimm wrote:Go to http://www.Supercub.org and look up all the threads by Bill Rusk.
He's built one and through some unfortunate circumstances is now
Building another. Lots of info there.
Dave

Good advice. Also, bring LOTS of money. Most of these homebuilt "Super Cubs" are costing well north of $100 K before they're done UNLESS you assemble and weld your own airframe, make your own ribs, etc. etc.

These are very doable projects, but look at the prices of components, and don't forget that these are NOT just "bolt a bunch of pieces onto a factory built frame" projects. There's still a LOT of fabrication to do.

If you've got the time, the place and some skills, though, have at it. As you sort of noted though, for the same money you'd be able to purchase a REALLY nice SC, even an experimental one.

MTV

It's hard to adequately describe how major a project building your own airplane is. And, my experience has mostly been with very well designed and "mature" kits, in other words as easy as it gets. 700 to 1000 hrs. MINIMUM (in my case) of your SPARE time, think about that for a second.... much more possibly if the kit is still undergoing changes from the factory. So many procedures that must flow in the right order, and if you rush it or your workmanship is lacking when you're all done you have a plane you will never get a fraction of your investment out of, not to mention your labor. You will be on a first name basis with the FEDEX and UPS people, they will be very important people for a year or so of your life. You will be tying up a large heated shop of some kind for an extended period, using lots of power for compressed air and other tools. You, if you want to complete it in a year or less, will effectively become a recluse, when you do get out people will ask "where you been"?

None of the above is exaggerated even a little, downplayed actually, so why do it? I don't have the answer, though I've done it 5 times plus a T-Craft rebuild, and will probably do it again, maybe it's because like pounding your head on a rock, it feels so good when you stop.

One answer is if you pull it off, you will be a more capable builder of just about anything else, (minor thread drift) here's a shot of a heated cab I just completed for my heretofore open cockpit crane. I saved 6 k for about 60 hours work, it has features the store bought ones don't, (just like the airplanes I've built, for better or worse) and due to skills picked up building airplanes was a pretty easy project. The big shop built for airplanes works pretty well for other uses also, as will all the special tools (cleco pliers for instance). Lots of pride and satisfaction when finally finished, just like building an airplane. Plus I can fix it if need be when I drive into the roof overhang, which I almost did the first time pulling out! That doing your own work thing is a major reason to build your own plane, the thought of having to take my airplane to a guy that is going to charge me X amount of dollars to work on it is so abhorrent to me I can't imagine it. Plus, from a backcountry flying POV I know that I can push it a bit more when landing off airport as I WILL be able to cheaply fix that scraped wing tip or whatever. I see a lot of guys flying planes they are scared (financially that is) to really play with, they have too much money invested to take a chance of scratching them, nothing wrong with that of course but like driving a beater car you don't worry about in the parking lot, my plane gets USED and I can always build another one.

Talk about a MAJOR undertaking !!! Go to WAG-AERO and look at there kits -they have major portions built up and PARTS. A EXPERIMENTAL aircraft means every flight is a "test flight -with you the test pilot" .
80-95% of all experimental projects are not COMPLETED by original purchaser .It's a long and tedious process that will occupy the next several years -or longer of your life.Try and see if there is a Project already started that you can complete might be cheaper and produce faster results. Barnstormers.com or Ebay or possibly Trade a Plane are go places to start. EAA local and national is really good too. When you get your "project" go get your "repairman's certificate" from local FAA office so your time>work etc will count >maybe toward your A&P. Establish your goals in sequence portions that are realistic. Mechanical things like putting on landing gear should be addressed early on so you can move part of your project out of the way to do things like wing and tail. I'd do radios ,engines ,instruments until LAST as things are always changing in these .If you buy the latest wiz-bang electronic wonder today by the time you finish airplane it could be obsolete . Aircraft engines are a must have -those automotive cross overs are problems I don't or won't work on or have in a airframe. Aircraft engines are meant to FLY not go to the store for a loaf bread. Let us know your progress .

As others have said, it's a big undertaking. I don't subscribe to the idea that I am any more of a test pilot of my experimental than I am of my Cessna 140, they are both tested designs, and built to the specs prescribed. As my avatar shows, I went a different direction than super cub, but experimental as well. I'm mid way through another sportier plane (Arion Lightning) and will not ever own certified again. (as soon as i can sell the 140...) The benefits of experimental are many, the technology is much more accessible, and you don't have to get the stuff just released, you can use tried and tested equipment. Just look at the light and amazingly functional EFIS choices from GRT, my choice, and Dynon, and MGL, to name a few. For less weight than basic Vfr panels, you can get much more info. Used gauges can be had very reasonable as well. maintenence costs are decreased. The knowledge I have of my plane is very comforting, and potential repairs are well within my skill set. Having A&P help is a plus.
Just be sure you want to build it, because it can be pretty frustrating at times. I'd do it again in a heartbeat. Wait, I did... Anybody need a clean 140?

KB

Now that I have a few personal bucket list items out of the way (long awaited A.A.S. Degree), Windows in the house done, shutters, lost some lb.'s, etc. I'm in heavy contemplation over re-starting my Patrol #156 project. This time, I'll do the spars FIRST, since they were my major stumbling block. Ribs were no big thing (measure, cut, flange, deburr and attach stiffeners.) The spars, however, are a much more critical exercise in measurement and rubik's cube puzzle mastery. I mostly had that figured out too. So, give me 'till after Christmas and we'll see. Still gotta clean up the shop, you know Super Cubs are great planes, but look up other designs Such as the Bearhawk Patrol, which have many design improvements made to make the plane faster, roomier and haul more with as good or better stall charachteristics. They are now available as kits, kit components, parts or scratch-build. Also comes as a 4-place or tandem. This is of couse unless you are stuck on the SC, which is fine. Not looking for arguments. I've done all the research and they are very different planes. Good luck on your project !

If you have the time , the know how , and the advice of good help, then go for it. Don't rush the project do the research before you build. A super cub is a good plane to take on for your project. Remember to keep it simple and ask if you have any doubt. There are a lot of good people that are willing to help. And there are a lot of people who will discharge you from taking on this kind of project. Try not to stretch it out to long. That's when one will lose parts and interest. I wish you luck and have fun. Hope to see pics of your progress...

Ken in Alaska

courierguy wrote:It's hard to adequately describe how major a project building your own airplane is. And, my experience has mostly been with very well designed and "mature" kits, in other words as easy as it gets. 700 to 1000 hrs. MINIMUM (in my case) of your SPARE time, think about that for a second.... much more possibly if the kit is still undergoing changes from the factory. So many procedures that must flow in the right order, and if you rush it or your workmanship is lacking when you're all done you have a plane you will never get a fraction of your investment out of, not to mention your labor. You will be on a first name basis with the FEDEX and UPS people, they will be very important people for a year or so of your life. You will be tying up a large heated shop of some kind for an extended period, using lots of power for compressed air and other tools. You, if you want to complete it in a year or less, will effectively become a recluse, when you do get out people will ask "where you been"?

None of the above is exaggerated even a little, downplayed actually, so why do it? I don't have the answer, though I've done it 5 times plus a T-Craft rebuild, and will probably do it again, maybe it's because like pounding your head on a rock, it feels so good when you stop.

One answer is if you pull it off, you will be a more capable builder of just about anything else, (minor thread drift) here's a shot of a heated cab I just completed for my heretofore open cockpit crane. I saved 6 k for about 60 hours work, it has features the store bought ones don't, (just like the airplanes I've built, for better or worse) and due to skills picked up building airplanes was a pretty easy project. The big shop built for airplanes works pretty well for other uses also, as will all the special tools (cleco pliers for instance). Lots of pride and satisfaction when finally finished, just like building an airplane. Plus I can fix it if need be when I drive into the roof overhang, which I almost did the first time pulling out! That doing your own work thing is a major reason to build your own plane, the thought of having to take my airplane to a guy that is going to charge me X amount of dollars to work on it is so abhorrent to me I can't imagine it. Plus, from a backcountry flying POV I know that I can push it a bit more when landing off airport as I WILL be able to cheaply fix that scraped wing tip or whatever. I see a lot of guys flying planes they are scared (financially that is) to really play with, they have too much money invested to take a chance of scratching them, nothing wrong with that of course but like driving a beater car you don't worry about in the parking lot, my plane gets USED and I can always build another one.

Aren't you supposed to be working on another tcraft down south?

Thanks for all the input so far!

I haven't committed to any particular kit yet, or even if I'm gonna go this route...still in the discovery mode. It also depends on a few other things as well.

Lot's of information out there though, I think that is a HUGE benefit that wasn't available back in the day. Instead of scratching your head for most the day trying to figure something out on your own, simply throw a post on one of these forums and, VOILA...possibly two or three solutions from others' experiences...I love technology

I will continue to ponder this idea. Meanwhile, headed out for a 3-4 day tour of northern CA in my trusty 140 tomorrow..I'll see where the ole GPS takes me...

Aaron

As I see it, you are self certifying your own medical ability every day you fly except for the day you actually have your physical, and when you as a pilot do the preflight of the aircraft, you are personally self-certifying its airworthiness every day of the year you fly except for that one day you have it annualed. Even on that day you better do the preflight since more problems ocurr immediately following the annual than on the day before. So what I am saying is, as pilots we are all at risk for as long as we have to self certify these piles of junk on a daily basis, including the pile that climbs in to fly it. Build your Super Cub if thats what you want. Just do your homework and know what your getting into time and expense wise. Your only gonna live once so do it like you want the best way you know how.

Bart, go for it! When you're over on supercub.org, look up Buggs66's thread on the SC he built. A fantastic job and very well documented and realistic info. Building is not for some, but certainly is for others! I'm sure contemplating this avenue myself, and I'm an A&P/IA for the past 25+ years. I'm tired of putting the same (if not more) time and money in to rebuilding/restoring a certified plane, and not being able to incorporate certain safety aspects without huge $$ investments to satisfy FAA restrictions.
John

I built a kit plane-(a vans RV8). It was a very fun project, and I will build again. If you are building because you want to build and learn, go for it. If you are building to save a couple bucks, better look elsewhere.

12-15 months is gonna be a full time job, if you are going scratch built. The prefab wings will save tons of time, but come at $$$$.

Bart said:

Right?!?!? Start off with a few big parts built by professionals with proper jigs, and start bolting on the little stuff til you have an airlane ready to cover It really seems too simple, and I'm sure I'm missing something that will be a dealbreaker...hence my inquiry here!

What you're missing is you will find there is just a hair more to it than bolting little stuff on to big parts.