Hello friends:

I’m an early TW pilot (150 hours), with a Bearhawk groundloop at the 2 hour mark. I have a field I’m preparing for an airstrip oriented E-West total length to be 1600 feet. The east end is wooded. There are trees on the south side extending 400 feet from the east end, I’m planning on a 75 foot width. I could remove more of these trees as needed to get up to 125 foot width (of course at more cost). I’d prefer to leave as much timber as possible, yet want to have safety concerning possible groundloop.

My impression is that most often GLs happen on landing toward the middle of the runway, usually into the wind (that was me!) What do you all think about clearing the trees for more than a 75 foot width at that end?

Notwithstanding that you experienced TW/backcountry pilots landing on challenging strips may scoff at my question, I'd like to maximize safety at reasonable cost.

Ground loops will only likely happen during roll out, not touchdown. In reality, you only need enough runway width for your comfort level, or aircraft wingspan plus 2 feet.

48Stinson1083 wrote:Ground loops will only likely happen during roll out, not touchdown. In reality, you only need enough runway width for your comfort level, or aircraft wingspan plus 2 feet.

Dunno about anyone else, but my comfort level is more than wingspan + two feet!

This will be the strip you will be returning to every time you come home. Heavy, tired, wind, rain, bad light, you are going to want it to be the strip you never have to worry about. Just like a hanger the bigger the better. You have the equipment on site now just get it done. remember trees are going to try to encroach branches into whatever area has sunlight. Ground loops can happen any phase of Taxi, Take off, or Landing. I would say more common with quartering tailwind but anytime, any place until the plane is tied down is a good rule.
DENN

What seems like enough on the ground never feels like enough in the air, low level.

I think the groundloop thing isn't as relevant as you might think. Can even happen to the best, sure, but the groundloop danger definitely fades as you get more experience with crosswinds and flying the damned thing.

What I would pay attention to is the mechanical effect of trees on the air at certain points on the runway.

I'd say go as wide as you can...it's just nice to have the room no matter your skill. Maybe you'll want to fly some RC planes or something and enjoy the room.

I have a 31' wingspan Maule and the home airstrip brush line is cleared 60' wide (with some brach encroachment). I have found that the narrow slot has provided significant protection from stiff cross winds that have made cross wind operations easier. I can crab into the strip and correct at ground level behind the trees just before touchdown. I have to say our trees here in south central TX are mostly mesquite and largely only about 10 to 12 feet tall, your case I suspect the trees are quite a bit taller and as such will provide even better blocking of the cross wind component. But as mentioned earlier, it depends on your comfort level.

As for ground looping, always remember that the rudder, brakes, and ailerons are available for controlling the aircraft. Don't hesitate to employ them all if the need arises. Machines only do what we operators allow/direct them to do.

Thanks for the great comments!

Phil

75' wide is a pretty wide runway, I would not go any wider than that for any plane that can land and take off with 1600' of runway. Tree protection from crosswinds, as previously stated, can be a good thing. If fear of a ground loop creates a desire for more width, I'd do what it takes to remove the ground loop fear before I relegated my landings to 100'or wider runways. While there are some backcountry runways that wide, its not the norm.

Dropping through trees less than 50' apart can feel pretty sketchy depending on what you are flying and general comfort level in that airplane. But, it is not difficult, you'll hear in your mind "centerline, centerline".

IMO on ground loops. When I first got my Maule M7 235 HP I only had 100 hours in Cessna 150s and 172s. The insurance company required I get an additional 30 hours of dual instruction. ($6500 for 1 year insurance)

One of the smartest guys on the Maule aircraft here on the website is Jeremy. Jeremy told me don't do the 30 hours of cross countries. Do all 30 hours of nothing but takeoffs and landings in every kind of condition imaginable. He said if you get to 300 landings and haven't ground looped you probably never will.

At the end of the 30 hours of dual instruction I had 275 Landings. That was 19 years ago. I now have 2400 hours in the Maule. I have never ground looped it. Knocking on wood now.

Last summer I completed my dream grass airstrip at home. 100 ft wide 1300 ft long. 

Cheers...Rob

My son and I chiseled, sawed, clipped a strip on my property here in northern MN. At first it was only 1,000' with trees on both ends along with a hill on the SW end. I have since lengthened it to 1600'+. No one wanted to land other than those very comfortable with STOLL type flying so we went back to cutting more trees.

Unfortuantely as Zane mentioned, pay attention to what the winds are and it's consequences. The predominant runways around here are 13/31 as the winds are generally out of the NW. Unfortunately the only place I could get a strip made was more like 05/23. Basically I am dealing with crosswinds ALL the time. My other issue is, there is a county road that cuts through my property of the NE end of the strip and being aligned with the predominant wind direction, I can get a heck of a burble/gust right upon the NE end when landing that can get a bit exciting at times since there are trees there also. Eventually, after many approaches, I am accustomed to them and respond accordingly.

Oh, my strip is also no where's near flat, as it has roughly a 10' rise in the center and dips at both ends. Friend with a Scout loves flying in since he says its challenging compared to typical flat strips. Flew a mighty O-300 powered 172 in/out of it many times.

Good luck on your strip! Nothing better in life than being able to have your own strip and hangar!