Hello BCP friends,

I've been thinking lately (dangerous, I know) about obtaining an A&P, and am curious how many on this board have it, working towards it, wish they had it, regret getting it, etc. etc. I am obviously in the early stages of research and still looking into local schools and wether or not the GI Bill even covers it.

I am a C-130 driver for the Air Guard and want to take advantage the GI Bill to continue my education. I feel that if I am going to own a backcountry airplane someday, I should probably know how to fix it when things hit the fan. Additionally, I am curious if part-time work as an A&P is realistic? And what kind of maintenance cost savings could be expected (if any) in terms of aircraft ownership.

Though all worth of input and opinion may be taken with a grain of salt, all are welcome!!

Seriously though, Thank You for any insight.

Kato

Two options:

Does your base have an Aero Club? If so the mx shop there often offers A&P training. Generally more suited to maintainers trying to make the jump from mil to civ but if you explain your interest and they like having you around maybe they'd let you apprentice.

The other option is to build a plane and get your name on the Repaiman's Certificate, with which you could then do just about everything shy of signing off the conditional inspection. Bearhawks and Tundras make pretty nice backcountry planes.

Vick wrote:The other option is to build a plane and get your name on the Repaiman's Certificate, with which you could then do just about everything shy of signing off the conditional inspection.

I thought that the builder on record could in fact sign off his/her own condition inspection. Am I mistaken?

Kato;

Check here for schools in your area

http://av-info.faa.gov/MaintenanceSchool.asp

VA accepts most of the community colleges programs

Good luck

Zane wrote:

Vick wrote:The other option is to build a plane and get your name on the Repaiman's Certificate, with which you could then do just about everything shy of signing off the conditional inspection.

I thought that the builder on record could in fact sign off his/her own condition inspection. Am I mistaken?

If you are the builder of record just apply for the repairman certificate and do the condition inspection yourself. If you bought the experimental and are not the builder, you cannot sign off the condition inspection. You will need an A/P or the original builder to do it.

http://www.faa.gov/aircraft/gen_av/ultr ... rman_cert/

I have owned one each way now. Actually I owned two experimentals I bought and could not do the condition inspection on and now the Tundra of which I am the builder of record and applied for and received the repairman certificate. I can do my own condition inspection, and do. Not a bad idea though, to have a fresh set of eyes look it over once in a while after passing that first FAA inspection.

Good info, thanks for setting me straight. For some reason I thought you still had to have an A&P sign it off even if you built it, nice that you don't. As you point out though it can be good to get another set of eyes to QA your work.

I'm about 3 months from finishing mine up. I had wanted to get mine for quite a while, but couldn't fit it in with work. When I was laid off I thought it was either now or never.

What really got me wanting one was all the little things that seem to add up in aircraft ownership like re-rigging controls, repairing leaking brake lines, and replacing strobe flashers... all simple things that I had to pay a mechanic to do. Now that I'm nearly done I have found that it is not the panacea that I once thought it was. I was surprised by things like an IA is required to sign off of major repairs and alterations and there are recency of experience requirements that prevent you from shelving your ticket for a few years and then dusting it off and expecting to use it again.

On the positive side, if you maintain your recency of experience (see part 65.83) you can sign off all of your own maintenance. An annual becomes a whole lot less expensive if you are paying an IA to inspect your airplane and not fix all of the squawks he finds. I suppose the cost savings depends on on what you own. A classic or antique might make it more worth it than a newer 182.

It has been a lot of work and I have thoroughly enjoyed it. The program I'm enrolled in runs for 2 years which breaks down into 11 months a year, 5 days a week, for 5 hours a day. It adds up to about the same number of credit hours that I received for my engineering degree! I'm glad I did it, and even though I don't intend to work as a mechanic it will be a useful and a valuable distinction in my engineering career. For me it was a goal and it fit with my interests.

I am with JRstripe on this one. Don't think getting your A&P ticket is all that. Its one thing if you are sure you want to make a career our of MX, but not for a hobby or aircraft ownership. I do know a few adventurous guys who earned the ticket so they could then work under an A&P and rebuild a project plane. However they did the quick 2 week study course because they were former Air Force maintenance. Anyways, I am a former C-17 crew Chief. I could test into the Airframe and General because of my AFSC code, but not practical for GA planes.

I too went to a community college, 5 day a week, 4 hours a day. Doing labs and classroom work. I got interested and was at the time working with my local A&P as a helper because he was so full of knowledge and he was fun to be around. The whole program was BORING as hell. I did more as a helper at the airport than in the program. We would go take a battery or starter generator out of a Cessna 310 or start the engine. Do wiring labs and re time a magneto , stuff like that.

Since i worked on heavy's some airframe and basics are the same, however GA stuff is specialized. You truly don't become a well rounded A&P until after about 6-10 years of working the field, so i have been told. The programs are set to teach you the basics, to pass your exam.
Unless working for airlines, I was surprised that the local executive jet FBO, which is modern and high tech, clean hires at $9/hour and you will be signing off other peoples work that you worked with or under...at $9/hr.

Let me remind you there are 45 i think or so items you as a owner/pilot can perform on your own aircraft. Such as oil changes, interior, change lights, etc. They are listed in the FAR's.

Even if you go through all that, you wont make enough money full time to actually OWN an airplane. If you do plan on getting one, you still would have to rely heavily and develop a good relationship with a local A&P that would let you work under his licence performing MX on your plane. Inspections require IA. Not to mention, the True A&P who is seasoned, has the knowledge from experience that you simply wont have. You will have as they say a "Licence to learn".

I say do it, only if you want to expand your own knowledge of the GA planes systems. If your a heavy C-130 troop your AFSC may qualify you already to take the test without going through much prep. you can take a quick 2 week course and, whammmmm you have a licence to learn. You have to check with the FSDO about which AFSC qualifies.

I have the A&P with IA and a big scab on one of my knuckles. I grew up handing screw drivers, wrenches and cleaning airplane parts for my dad. My A&P paid for my flying and gave me added respect by aircraft owners that gave them confidence in letting me fly their planes. Got handed some cool planes and gained a lot of experience because of my A&P. Got my degree and then worked as a Government Pilot. There I had plenty of time to use my A&P by working on my own airplanes or others. Working as a 121 pilot I just didn’t have enough time to wrench much. Luckily I spent little time on reserve. Maybe not working on planes and the fact that the airlines aren’t what they were, I wanted to make my own aviation company. I know that I’m not the best craftsman but sure have fun working on my planes. I try and fix or mod everything. They are big expensive puzzles that you better get right. I have realized that I can screw up and redo my work just like some other A&P holding his signature over my head and then handing some big bill. If I had done it in a different direction like Degree, ATP, Airlines, airplane owner, I think I would just pay someone to fix my plane and I would spend my time waxing the Corvette while waiting for the plane to be readied. Alas I am not that smart and took the hard route. If you have the time to get it while working the stock market, getting your masters, flying the line, go for it.

Got mine though one of the test prep programs in California, I had the experience and got the sign offs I needed then took the class and the tests. Since then (8 yrs) I don't think I have charged for any of the work I have done. I got the ticket so I could legally do the work on my plane and my partners plane.

To do it for money just don't make sense to me, you have lots of liability and make peanuts while doing it. At the time I got my ticket I had intended to buy orphaned planes, fix them up and sell them. Cruel life in the form of nose diving economy made me go back to work for wages and no time or money to fix planes.

The good side is I can and do perform all the needed repairs on my plane, my annuals are very inexpensive and after all I am really the only one I trust to do the work on the plane that I fly anyway.

Shane

All,

Thank you very much for your replies and perspectives. Even though your mileage may vary, this has given me more of an idea of what i am potentially dealing with. I will look into the above mentioned suggestions and keep you all updated. You guys are great and hopefully soon I will be able to "pay it forward" like you guys are doing now.

Thanks again for your insight!!

kato

Something to think about ! If you like mechanic work , go to work in an automobile repair shop. They pay about $25.00 an hour around here and have
NO liability for work done and no license to lose !! And you don't have to kiss the FAA's ass ! Work on your own aircraft and only friends you can trust!
You will probably will even get benefits too !!