Jr.CubBuilder wrote:Is there anybody else on this site with a C170?

Sure..I have a 170B here in Anchorage.

Yes, I'm in PA.
John

I have a '53 C170B,, with a Lyc 0360, c/s 80" Hartzell, complete new center stack panel. We are about 3 weeks from a test hop on it from a 3 1/2 year total rebuild. Jon

jon,

was the conversion done with you as the owner, and if so what STC did you use? it is my understanding there are a few different STCs available for that engine/prop combo.

zane

I was just curious. I did an STC search for the 170 a while back, and yes, a huge list was returned from the FAA database.

I want a 170B so bad i can taste it, and am wondering how much the conversion costs on average to go to a 180 HP Cont or Lyc, plus c/s Hartzell or Mac. I have seen a few 170's for sale with the conversion already done, usually in the $60,000 range. With the stock O-300 the 170 isn't much good for hauling much more than 1 pax and fuel in the summer, right?

Z

These are good considerations. It sucks to have to add weight to baggage to balance it out, but i guess that is the only thing you can do to a plane that was designed for a lighter engine.

Curious, what is your field elev and what is the empty weight of your stock 170, Jr? I see your useful is 845 lbs, roughly the same as the 172 I rent(821 lbs useful), which has a Penn Yan 180HP conversion...empty 1,579 lbs and extended max gross to 2400. Quoting a climb rate would be hard since it seems the temp outside is different every time I fly, but I usually get in the neighborhood of 500-600 fpm off the field at 80 kts ias from KRNO which is at 4412 MSL.

Having never flown a 170 (only supercub and a decathlon taildraggers) I am just trying to get a feel for the performance compared to this 172.

Zano

As a quick aside we have another 6A-350 / 220 hp Franklin powered 170B here at Brainerd just finishing up a rebuild (wrecked in 1990). Wont get paint until next Spring but should fly this winter on skis. It needed an early model 172 cowl to make the conversion work and that wasn't super easy to find (at least a good one). Also installed a Horton STOL kit and glider tail hook.

Brad

(these airplanes really haul the freight with this motor)

Zane,
I would love to tell you my impressions of the 0360 Lyc conversion, but I'm not done yet. The STC is a Del Air conversion (Harry Dellicker), and is a good STC. You will get everything you need for the conversion in his kit. I have nothing but good things to say about their support of the project. At the same time I put in a Javelin aux tank, which helps the cg. Along with that I used Del Airs STC to move my battery off the fire wall, to behind the luggage compartment, which also changes the cg. I have put on a B&C light weight starter and a 50 amp alt. I put on an 80" Hartzell prop and dampner under an STC from a guy in Alaska, who has used this set up extensively on a 170 and a 175. His name is Dave Stoots. Along with this, we have put in a new center stack panel (STC by Del Air), with a modified control yoke, also Del Air. We will test hop in about 3 weeks if things work out ok. The interior will not be done, but that is not important and will be done soon. I have about 500 hours in a C170A I owned before this one and loved it, although I have had several Cubs and got better short field performance with them. The stock 170 is a good 3 person airplane if you are not looking for stand out performance, but rather a good honest flying airplane. Taildraggers, you gotta love em! Jon

I have a Continental IO-360 in my '52 C-170B. It weighs about 100 pounds more than stock with a C/S prop My battery is just behind the baggage compartment and the C.G. is right on. The engine fits right inside the cowling without any modification, is butter smooth, and will wax the ass off of any four banger ever built!
I have spoke!

Jr cub builder, We flew 3 hours on Saturday. Although I can't give alot of performance figures, we were at sea level, 80 degrees, and full tanks, 2 on board and were showing 78 MPH and 1200 fpm climb. The engine has only this 3 hours on it since a rebuild, so we will have to see what kind of numbers we get after break in. The plane (53 170B), is heavy, (1440 lbs), and will gain about another 10 or so as I finish it up. I think it will cruise in the 130 mph range, but I don,t know yet. The aux tank is a Javelin tank and goes behind the passenger seat, with the fuel pumped to the right wing tank after it is emptied in flight. We moved the battery back off the firewall, and the new empty weight is .03 inches off the original empty weight c/g out of the factory. So far we are just tweeking wing settings and trim tabs, to get a good trim airplane, since the wings are completely rebuilt and all of the tail surfaces were removed gone over, repainted, rebalanced and replaced, you just have to fly and trim, fly and trim, etc., . The engine is a narrowdeck 0-360 four banger, with a Hartzell 80" c/s prop and dampner, so I can't do any chest thumping or ass waxing, but it should be a good recreational aircraft, and meet all my needs. I have owned several cubs, super cubs, super cruisers, a champ, a citabria, another 170A, a 250 comanche, a tri-pacer, and fly a C180, but the 170s are the best all around aircraft for my type of flying. Jon

Hi blueldr,

I know we've seen each other on the TIC170A site... Couldn't resist after that last post of yours... Hehehe

We'll hafta have a little contest sometime between your IO-360 and my 6A-350 (220 Franklin). Those Continental 6's are pretty darn smooth, but my Franklin's about as smooth as it gets without being a turbine! I'll bet we're neck and neck, performance wise. And I didn't have to plumb those pesky fuel injection return lines! Plus I hot start easier. (Although I never had a problem with the Arrow III and Seneca II I used to fly.) Mine fits under the original cowl (no mods at all!) too. 100 lbs heavier is about right - most of it is my no-AD McCauley 2A34C201 prop. Did I mention no ADs firewall forward? Fuel system is all gravity fed - no pump AD. And my spinner looks great - not too bulbous but curvacious enough to match the rest of her lines - and not too oversized to look out of place. Gotta love it!

Sure wish ECI would buy Franklin from P&W though... And don't get me wrong - I love TCM. I'll probably put a Continental (TS?)IO-360 in that Super Swift I'm gonna (re)build someday!

Sorry, couldn't resist!

Matt

I flipped the page...

Gotta plug the Lycs out there too...

Dad has a 180hp/CS prop conversion in his 172. No it doesn't wax anybody's rump.... uhh lemme rephrase... No actually it isn't much faster, but it sure makes a nice 4-person airplane out of it. It's been bulletproof all the way past TBO as well.

We bought the baggage door STC from Del-Air. I'd recommend Harry's operation highly. Good and generous support; we had more than one lengthly phone conversation regarding installation BEFORE we even bought anything. It made the installation pretty easy. I would imagine you can't do any better buying the Lycoming O-360 STC from anyone else. Someday We'll be looking seriously at his new fuel tank STC to bring the useable up to 67 gallons.

M

Isn't there some guy in Soldotna that has a 170B with the Cont. IO-360 and two Ray-Jay turbos that he can dial up and down depending on the need? I know I've seen a picture of the thing and it has got to be a pretty awesome performer.

Brad

Two RayJays on a Continental IO-360? Okay, I've been humbled (There's always somebody around to do that for me!). I wonder what his paperwork looks like. The upkeep on that firebreather must be killer. Man, the TSIO-360 stock from TCM can be tempermental if it isn't pampered!

While you two hotroddrs are having fun waxing my ass (huh? ), I'll be easing along burning 8 gallons an hour of that good old cheap car gas!
Seriously, I wish the old 170 had a little more steam, but I'm not ready to pony up the kind of money it takes to do an engine upgrade. But if I did, I think I'd probably be leaning toward the Lycoming 360. Probably as close to bulletproof as anything out there, cheaper to overhaul than the 6 cylinders (except maybe the C-145), plus you can run them on cargas to keep costs down, etc. It's my understanding that both the Franklin 350 & the Continental 360 are 100LL only. Not that big a deal to some, maybe, but we're talking about a savings of 10 or more bucks an hour for these bigger engines.

Eric

I'm not really sure how the ass-waxing thing got so out of hand... I was having a little fun at bluedlr's expense I suppose . We don't go all that much faster in cruise, maybe 20 ktas. I can burn 8 gph at 7500' (even less above 10K) at full throttle and 2300 rpm though. Down low she's very thirsty going fast, but if I pull the power back and indicate ~100 mph she still drinks about the same as she used to with the O-300. Ya got me on the av-gas/mo-gas thing though! Can't pull up to the roadside Flying-J anymore!
Matt
PS. Thanks for referring me to this site, Eric!

Re; Operating the Continental IO-360 in the C-170B.
Fuel consumption is the same as the C-145/O-300 at THE SAME AIRSPEED.
The FUZZ will become hostile, red in the face, stamp their foot, and violate you if you feed your IO-360 mogas, but the engine doesn't give a damn and loves it. Spark plugs stay nice and clean too.

Flying-J is a gas station/convenience store/truck stop chain that originated in Utah and is in many other states as well (even Texas)... There's a strip called "Wells" on the south shore of the Great Salt Lake along I-80 that has a truck stop, a little greasy-spoon diner (actually pretty good breakfastes) and a big Flying-J (I think) truckstop/gas station that would be perfect for a photo!

Another place you can do this maneuver is at Picabo (pronounced "peek-a-boo"), ID. It's a grass strip with a little gas station across the highway about 15nm southeast of Sun Valley (KSUN). You can taxi off the strip, look both ways, and cross the road for a little self-serve. Its not a Flying-J though...

Here's a funny side note: A guy I met a couple years ago at the UBCP/KBTF Smiley Creek fly-in arrived in a homebuilt (looks like a Champ, but I don't know the M&M). He told me that he had topped off at Picabo, and then couldn't get enough airspeed in time to make a safe takeoff from the strip. After 3 attempts and 3 aborts, he taxied out onto the highway and let her rip. All was going well until oncoming traffic came around the bend ahead. He lifted off and flew away in time, but he was close enough to see the flabbergasted faces of the driver & passenger jellyfished on the windshield and eyes as big as saucers peering upward as he overflew them! No, really it wasn't me!!

That is a great story! A few years back my dad went on a XC in the Quicksilver ultralight with a group. They landed on the highway in Fields, OR(close to the OR/NV border) and taxiied up to the little gas station and filled 'em up. I have a photo somewhere.

Another year we did a XC out to the Alvord desert in SE Oregon, we needed a piss break so we landed on a dirt strip in the middle of nowhere, which happened to be close to what appeared to be an abandoned single story structure. Engines shut down, silence, then the sound of a bunch of kids running over to us to see what the heck was going on. We had landed near a Little House on the Prairie style schoolhouse. Did a little show and tell for the kids with the planes and then took off again...kinda fun.

z