I've got a 1974 C185 on Whip 3000's Purchased last year, rebuilt firewall forward, rebuilt the IO520, new MT 3 blade. Rides great. Winter project is to put it up on wheels. According to the logs, it hasn't wheeled since 1984. Got 8.50's for main, and the old tailwheel, well is old.. Alaskan bushwheels has a great 10" tailwheel assembly,,, BUT not tailwheel lock. I've got 2800 hrs on a C180, never had the lock... I've never flown a plane with a lock,,, Am I going to miss the lock on the 185, or is ignorance and enthusiasm going to save the day? First post, Thanks in advance for all the heckling!!

185inTC - I pulled my 1975 185 off amphibs this year and fretted about the lack of a lock. Folks I talked with said it was no big deal. I had essentially no tailwheel experience beforehand so had no prior expectations. What I can say is that I don’t think you will need it or miss it. Maybe taxiing is a really strong crosswind. Good luck.

A tailwheel lock is a “nice to have” item on a 185, or a 180, for that matter. Helps a little in strong winds.

If you can figure out how to save it, do so, if not, don’t sweat it. Most all of my 185 time was in airplanes with the locks removed. Never felt like I needed one.

MTV

Isn't a tailwheel lock listed on the equipment list? How do you remove it and call the airplane airworthy?

FWIW, I swear by the lock. I lock the tailwheel when I taxi on the runway and leave it locked until I'm ready to taxi clear.

Do you NEED it? Maybe not, but I don't NEED shoulder harnesses or a Pponk gear beef up until your really need it. IMO, the 185 is heavy enough to justify it and there is a reason Cessna put it on every 185 that came out the door. T6, Beech 18, DC3, and C46 all have tailwheel locks. No good reason to not have it and use it.

Tom Anderson at Landing Gear Works can set you up with a locking tailwheel. Just bring plenty of $$$.
I haven't ever thought I needed a locking tailwheel, but then again I've never flown with one either.
Ignorance is bliss, I guess.

In addition to taxiing in strong winds, if you have ever experienced a tailwheel shimmy during touchdown on pavement from the right combination of speed, weight, and crosswind (offsetting the tailwheel direction), and have ever wished that you could make it go away, then you may like the tailwheel lock because you can set the tail down with the rudders deflected but avoid that nasty kick of a crooked tailwheel.

One thing to note is that when you lock the tailwheel and prevent it from pivoting, the rudder pressure will go up and full deflection of the rudder is more difficult. So paradoxically, when landing in that gusty crosswind that is a setup for bad shimmy, by locking the tailwheel, it makes it slightly more challenging to dance with your feet on the pedals.

Personally, I like having the option to lock the tail when needed, especially when landing in all of the aforementioned conditions but with the additional weight of a tailski mounted to the wheel. That’s another shimmy setup that I simply avoid by locking the tailwheel.

AEROPOD wrote:T6, Beech 18, DC3, and C46 all have tailwheel locks.

Yeah, and Air Tractors, B-17, B-25, etc. etc. But that’s a meaningless argument because none of those aircraft were equipped with a steerable tailwheel. The 185 is.

But as I noted, if you can save it-do so, if not don’t sweat it.

MTV

I suspect you wont ever miss it. I haven’t had a lock, and suspect I would rarely use it on the 185. My tailwheel is on the ground for such a short length of time before I slow to a taxi/turning speed. Agree with others.....would be nice to have, but certainly not needed.

mtv wrote:

AEROPOD wrote:T6, Beech 18, DC3, and C46 all have tailwheel locks.

Yeah, and Air Tractors, B-17, B-25, etc. etc. But that’s a meaningless argument because none of those aircraft were equipped with a steerable tailwheel. The 185 is.

But as I noted, if you can save it-do so, if not don’t sweat it.

MTV

Steerable or not, what's the difference in this discussion?

BTW, pretty sure a T6 has a steerable tailwheel, the navy SNJ doesn't though.

The point is you need one or the other, but not necessarily both.

MTV

Flown both with and without the lock. The 185 I own now doesn’t have one and I don’t want one. Just properly set up taiwheel steering is all you need. Get yourself a new tight tailwheel from Bushwheels. I got rid of the old McCauley off of mine a few years ago and replaced it with the complete new large fork with the hard 400-4 glider tire. Works real slick and that tire wears like iron. Asphalt, sharp shale rock, mud-it doesn’t care-tough as nails. Use the money you saved buying a locking wheel for gas to go fly and practice your landings.

Just a note on the mains. Take the time to check the wheel alignment. Especially if the gear isn’t original to the aircraft. If it’s off, it can get really squirrelly.

I have a 73 185 and don't have one on mine. It can be tiresome taxing in a strong crosswind with that big dorsal fin.
My 58 180 was much easier to taxi in a crosswind due to the smaller dorsal. From what I have read most operators remove them because if they fail your in a pickle.

It is kind of a personal choice. Had it on both of my 185's and became rather fond of it. Really saved me from cooking one wheel or the other when taxiing at larger airports in stiff breezes. On concrete it can pay for itself quickly, not needed as much on grass and dirt. If it is on your equipment list as original equipment, then you would need to do a 337 to change it to non-locking, unless it was a factory option to have non-locking for your year model. Then you would be installing PNXXX. I do seem to remember that starting sometime in the 70's all 185's had locking as the only option.

It would have to be a super sharp inspector to pick that one up and most of them are retiring. Most of the current crop of feds would probably red tag your airplane for not having a nose wheel. That being said, the DAR I just used for my Caravan import was a youngster and he caught Wipaire messing up on its own STC's installation paperwork.

All that being said there is one on eBay right now, make offer:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/0742147-6-Cessna-A185F-Tailwheel-Assy-w-Locking-Anti-Swivel-7-8-Tailwheel/232601444291?epid=13008428742&hash=item3628205fc3:g:hh8AAOSwyXNaOA9r:rk:1:pf:0

mtv wrote:The point is you need one or the other, but not necessarily both.

MTV

Agree to disagree, but it still doesn't address the legality of removing it.

As far as I know, ALL 185's were delivered with TW locks. The first year or so had an arrangement like a T6 where the lock applied automatically when the elevators went up, almost like Cessna preferred 3-point...

Around 62-63 they changed to the arrangement that was in use until 85.

a3holerman wrote:.... From what I have read most operators remove them because if they fail your in a pickle.

If the lock failed on a 185, you'd still have the steerable feature so should be OK.

dogpilot wrote:….All that being said there is one on eBay right now, make offer:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/0742147-6-Cessna-A185F-Tailwheel-Assy-w-Locking-Anti-Swivel-7-8-Tailwheel/232601444291?epid=13008428742&hash=item3628205fc3:g:hh8AAOSwyXNaOA9r:rk:1:pf:0

That t/w is set up for a lock, but it doesn't appear tp have any of the locking mechanism (aka "monkey motion") included.

oop

AEROPOD wrote:...As far as I know, ALL 185's were delivered with TW locks. The first year or so had an arrangement like a T6 where the lock applied automatically when the elevators went up, almost like Cessna preferred 3-point... Around 62-63 they changed to the arrangement that was in use until 85.

JUst did some googling, can't find anything that says Cessna did (or didn't) put "automatic" locking tailwheels on the 185 right from the git-go.
I did find this:
"1964 Model 185C
Serial numbers 0654 through 0776
52 amp, 14V alternator replaces generator.
Manual tail wheel lock.
Dual piston brakes"
(source: http://skywagons.com/content/cessna-sky ... ar-changes )

Maybe someone with an early C185 (Pilotryan maybe?) can provide this information-
the original factory equipment list should show what was installed from the factory,
as well as if it was indeed required equipment.
The equipment list should be part of your W&B files.
Or maybe just check your factory owner's manual, if you have one?
Ditto for later model 185's--
IMHO it's unclear whether the lock was standard or required for those either, or just optional.

I did just check my 1963-68 Series 100 service manual,
it says "three different configurations of tailwheel locking systems may be found on the model 185"--
the key words here being "may be", instead of "will be".
(semantics maybe)

AEROPOD wrote:

mtv wrote:The point is you need one or the other, but not necessarily both.

MTV

Agree to disagree, but it still doesn't address the legality of removing it.

As far as I know, ALL 185's were delivered with TW locks. The first year or so had an arrangement like a T6 where the lock applied automatically when the elevators went up, almost like Cessna preferred 3-point...

Around 62-63 they changed to the arrangement that was in use until 85.

Legality: Just like a lot of things on equipment list: submit 337 and remove it, not required for flight.

And, I picked up a brand new 1985 C-185 with 20 hours on it. No tailwheel lock, and no indication it’d ever had one. And, not on equipment list.

This was fresh from factory, dealer removed? Dunno.....but there was no sign of one on that airplane.

MTV

When I was putting my 185F on its tailwheel gear earlier this year after a decade on amphibian gear, I tried to figure out the lock. The original POH mentions it, but doesn’t do anything else. No drawings and no equipment list. The water rudder handle is where I think the handle for the tailwheel lock might have been. The tailwheel does automatically “lock” without the locking handle, but if you swing the tail around, the tailwheel breaks out of the limited-range locking position and is free-castoring for the remainder of the range of motion. When the tail wheel gets back in the range (about 15 degrees?), the “locking” mechanism kicks in again.