Guys,

I'm about 10 hours through the break in process of my 0 SMOH C-85/O-200 using mineral oil. Once I get to 25 hrs, I'll be using straight 40W, and Camguard in the oil was recommended by the over haul shop. I've got an Airwolf remote filter, and change the oil every 25+/- hours. Unfortunately, when I'm deployed with the Army the plane will sit for 60-80 days at a time. Has anyone had any quantifiable experiences with Camguard before I start adding it to my oil?

Mike-

The same addative that is in Cam Gaurd is also in several of the aviation oils now on the market. It just has to be called by its chemical name due to trademark crap. This was told to me by the Shell distributor wt Oshkosh. He told me which oils have it in them but I don't remember which ones it was. You could pose the question to them and see what they say.
Keith

Lots of posts on this on supercub.org. Do a search over there for quite a bit of information.

WWhunter wrote:The same addative that is in Cam Gaurd is also in several of the aviation oils now on the market. It just has to be called by its chemical name due to trademark crap. This was told to me by the Shell distributor wt Oshkosh. He told me which oils have it in them but I don't remember which ones it was. You could pose the question to them and see what they say.
Keith

NOT true. In fact, the fellow who created CamGuard worked for Exxon, as I recall. My understanding was that he tried to get them to add this additive to their oil, and they wouldn't since it would have increased the cost of their oil, and therefore competition would be tough. So, he went out on his own.

To the best of my knowledge, the chemicals in CamGuard are NOT incorporated in ANY standard aviation oils.

Give Cam Guard a call and chat with them. They're good folks to talk to, and very knowledgeable.

In response to the initial question, CamGuard CAN also be used as a preservative oil, at a higher concentration than would normally be used. I've used the stuff since it first came out, and I firmly believe it's helped, since my airplane sits idle for weeks at times.

I highly recommend using Cam Guard regularly, and as I noted, in your case if you wanted to use it as a preservative oil while you're deployed, that works as well. Read the instructions. Here's their web site: http://www.aslcamguard.com/aircraft/

Note that Camguard is virtually the only oil additive that is approved by both the manufacturers and the FAA.

MTV

To the best of my knowledge and research i did before i started using it, i agree with MTV. Same story i had found.

As to quantifiable evidence, My engine (O-360 A1A) was fairly low-time approx (250 SMOH) when i started using camguard regularly. Previous to adding camguard, i was getting trace amounts on my oil analasis, since i have had mostly 0's. My aircraft sits out in the wilds of Alaska all year, and at times, due to weather , it has to sit for long periods without use.

I'm sure there is, and will be lots of opinions one way or the other, but i'm sold. If it helps keep the engine healthy longer up here where i fly over lots of wilderness, and prevents an early overhaul, i'm all for it.

Chris

mtv wrote:

WWhunter wrote:The same addative that is in Cam Gaurd is also in several of the aviation oils now on the market. It just has to be called by its chemical name due to trademark crap. This was told to me by the Shell distributor wt Oshkosh. He told me which oils have it in them but I don't remember which ones it was. You could pose the question to them and see what they say.
Keith

NOT true. In fact, the fellow who created CamGuard worked for Exxon, as I recall. My understanding was that he tried to get them to add this additive to their oil, and they wouldn't since it would have increased the cost of their oil, and therefore competition would be tough. So, he went out on his own.

To the best of my knowledge, the chemicals in CamGuard are NOT incorporated in ANY standard aviation oils.

Give Cam Guard a call and chat with them. They're good folks to talk to, and very knowledgeable.

In response to the initial question, CamGuard CAN also be used as a preservative oil, at a higher concentration than would normally be used. I've used the stuff since it first came out, and I firmly believe it's helped, since my airplane sits idle for weeks at times.

I highly recommend using Cam Guard regularly, and as I noted, in your case if you wanted to use it as a preservative oil while you're deployed, that works as well. Read the instructions. Here's their web site: http://www.aslcamguard.com/aircraft/

Note that Camguard is virtually the only oil additive that is approved by both the manufacturers and the FAA.

MTV

+1 with MTV with the side note that Camguard is FAA Accepted, not FAA approved as an additive. The FAA will not approve or do any of their own testing on aftermarket additives but will accept or give a "no technical objection" to a product after giving it a smell test. I had to show this to my FSDO rep. as he wanted to know what this funky stuff I was using in my oil changes, reading from log entries.

Ed Kollin, the creator of Camguard worked for Exxon and developed the additive package for Exxon Elite oil. Curiously, he will not endorse Elite oil these days and explains that Exxon merely copied Aeroshell 15W-50 and called it Elite. He uses Phillips 20W-50 X/C and Camguard in his plane and claims it provides the ideal mix in modern piston engines (sorry MTV ). There are volumes of his exchanges over on the AOPA forums.

I'm sold on Camguard, but I'm no chemist.

i use elite and used aero shell 15/50 for years previous and in same o 200 and oil consumption was noticeably less with elite just my 2 cents

I know a major engine builder in the Minneapolis area that has used camgaurd in his 550 continental for years and the plane moslty sits in a hanger with very little flying in years. They checked out the internal key parts and it checked out perfect, no rust and he and my IA firmly believes in camgaurd. I would definitely use it if you don't fly the plane much or for storage.

Mike Bush from the Cessna Pilots Assn is a fan of Camguard and had written articles about the product. Do a google search and the article should show up.

I think this is the article:
http://www.avweb.com/news/savvyaviator/savvy_aviator_52_thinking_about_oil_changes_196730-1.html

The Camguard site:
http://www.aslcamguard.com/aircraft/test-data/antiwear-performance/

This one is pretty good on leaning, LOP and ROP:
http://www.avweb.com/news/savvyaviator/savvy_aviator_59_egt_cht_and_leaning_198162-1.html

Camguard provides independent ASTM test results on their website. It's pretty simple to identify the oils they use and the improvements Camguard makes when added to them.

I believe the confusion about Shell oils is the Plus series of Shell oils incorporating the Lycoming anti-scuff additive. They also advertise improved corrosion protection but I've been told it isn't the same thing. If I used Aeroshell plus oil I'd still add Camguard. Every year when I use Phillips anti-rust storage oil I add Camguard to that.

Don Swords in a cub clues article recommended not to use camguard in a fresh continental. My take on it was it thins the oil for breakin. Anyone know for sure what the thinking was?

I wouldn't use any additives in the oil for break in. You need some friction to seat rings. I did use XC 20-50 to break in my last new engine and it worked great. No camguard until 25 hours even though the oil consumption was stable after 4-5 hours.

Winds in south Anchorage are 30-55 g 80 tonight. No power. What did we do before iPhones?

he said once im done breakin.

I use the lycoming additive & the Camguard. After needing engine work done I learned that moisture and top engine lack of oil does cause cam shaft & valve damage. I also upgraded my cam shaft to the drilled holes by Firewall Forward in order to get oil to the upper end of the engine ASAP. 5 years later & all is well. One trick that was also passed on from this site is the open your oil stick port in order to allow steam to exit engine after flight while putting her to bed! If you are tied down the time it takes to get her to bed 20 mins allows a lot of steam to exit. If you are in a hangar some guys just leave the stick out until next flight!

Green Hornet wrote:I use the lycoming additive & the Camguard. After needing engine work done I learned that moisture and top engine lack of oil does cause cam shaft & valve damage. I also upgraded my cam shaft to the drilled holes by Firewall Forward in order to get oil to the upper end of the engine ASAP. 5 years later & all is well. One trick that was also passed on from this site is the open your oil stick port in order to allow steam to exit engine after flight while putting her to bed! If you are tied down the time it takes to get her to bed 20 mins allows a lot of steam to exit. If you are in a hangar some guys just leave the stick out until next flight!

It has been a while since I built lycs / conti's but the "upper" end of the engine gets oil from the center of the lifters that send it through the hollow pushrods and out the small holes in the rocker arms to dribble over the springs/valves etc.... The drilled camshaft delivers oil to the face of the lobe to lubricate the cam to lifter scuffing area..... Just another reason all motor need roller lifters. ..

Ben.

Stol wrote:

Green Hornet wrote:I use the lycoming additive & the Camguard. After needing engine work done I learned that moisture and top engine lack of oil does cause cam shaft & valve damage. I also upgraded my cam shaft to the drilled holes by Firewall Forward in order to get oil to the upper end of the engine ASAP. 5 years later & all is well. One trick that was also passed on from this site is the open your oil stick port in order to allow steam to exit engine after flight while putting her to bed! If you are tied down the time it takes to get her to bed 20 mins allows a lot of steam to exit. If you are in a hangar some guys just leave the stick out until next flight!

It has been a while since I built lycs / conti's but the "upper" end of the engine gets oil from the center of the lifters that send it through the hollow pushrods and out the small holes in the rocker arms to dribble over the springs/valves etc.... The drilled camshaft delivers oil to the face of the lobe to lubricate the cam to lifter scuffing area..... Just another reason all motor need roller lifters. ..

Ben.

What about high flow lifters?

Glidergeek wrote:

Stol wrote:

Green Hornet wrote:I use the lycoming additive & the Camguard. After needing engine work done I learned that moisture and top engine lack of oil does cause cam shaft & valve damage. I also upgraded my cam shaft to the drilled holes by Firewall Forward in order to get oil to the upper end of the engine ASAP. 5 years later & all is well. One trick that was also passed on from this site is the open your oil stick port in order to allow steam to exit engine after flight while putting her to bed! If you are tied down the time it takes to get her to bed 20 mins allows a lot of steam to exit. If you are in a hangar some guys just leave the stick out until next flight!

It has been a while since I built lycs / conti's but the "upper" end of the engine gets oil from the center of the lifters that send it through the hollow pushrods and out the small holes in the rocker arms to dribble over the springs/valves etc.... The drilled camshaft delivers oil to the face of the lobe to lubricate the cam to lifter scuffing area..... Just another reason all motor need roller lifters. ..

Ben.

What about high flow lifters?

Lifters get their oil from the oil galley that's cast/drilled in the case. The cam does NOT feed the lifters their supply of oil. IMHO.

With the continental engines your not as likely to have cam rust issues like you will in a Lycoming. I use STP oil treatment, it's not FAA approved but it works.