Backcountry Pilot • Camping stoves in the cold

Camping stoves in the cold

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Wed Dec 17, 2008 10:29 am

There's a lot of home-made canister heating contraptions out there, especially with hanging stoves in the alpine climbing community. Here's a little caution about overdoing it:

http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/exploding_gas_canisters_the_hazard_of_overheating. html

You will see a precis, but if you want to read the whole story of the test and see the results you have to subscribe for almost 25 bucks. I did so and here is what happened to the test subject canister:

The canister was put in a pot of cool water that was brought to 208F (short of boiling) on an electric hotplate. At about 14 minutes the canister ruptured and released a cloud of gas vapor with a loud BANG!. The cloud of gas then proceded to condense before dissapating in a light breeze. Due to a lack of ignition source the cloud was not a ball of flame.

EDIT: The bottom of the canister was deformed and stayed in the pot. The top, however, went on a lengthy trip into the air and landed quite a distance from the test site. If there had been an ingnition source the forces would have been greater by a considerable margin!

Useing a hand warmer pack to heat the canister seems unlikely to get the canister to 208F.


I would also recommend an ensolite foam cup to cover the bottom of your canister, and help retain the heat from the hand pack.
denalipilot offline
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Wed Dec 17, 2008 11:19 am

Butane doesn't vaporize worth a crap below 32 F. These new canister fuels are a mix of butane and propane to help with the cold temp performance, but I think they have their limits too, and the propane will expire sooner than the butane. Like DP says, ya gotta preheat the canister somehow.

Really cold temps is where white gas still shines.
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Wed Dec 17, 2008 11:20 am

For those unfamiliar with them, the jetboil stoves use a canister of propane/butane mix. I believe they are rated at 4500 BTU / hour.

My personal favorite stove has been a coleman dual fuel single burner that will take either white gas or unleaded. I've never burned avgas in it, but it would do in a pinch as long as you stayed upwind to keep from breathing the lead. It works pretty well in cold weather. It's rated at 10500 BTU/hour. I paid about $35 for it several years ago at Walmart. My only complaint is that it weighs far too much.

My latest stove toy is lots of fun. It's a two minute do it yourself project that I found on the internets.
:!: :!: :!: YOU MUST BUILD ONE! :!: :!: :!:
CLICK HERE --->>> http://jwbasecamp.com/Articles/SuperCat/HTML/Super_Cat7.htm <<<---
I've only used methanol as fuel (yellow bottle of HEET), but so far I'm really impressed. The stove and a 12 oz bottle of HEET weighs 12.5 oz! It's the perfect survival stove to throw in the back of the plane and forget until needed.
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Wed Dec 17, 2008 3:25 pm

I have learned to use two stoves.

An OLD Svea-123 I believe it is.
The other is one of the canister stoves. (Bluet) ?!?

The old Svea is the work horse, boiling water etc., and the Bluet is used when I need to finesse the temperatures a bit.

I use the Bluet to "prime" the Svea.

I use a three sided aluminum shield to keep the temperature "up" on the Bluet canister stove. Need to keep an occasional finger on the back side of the canister so ya don't get it too hot.
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Wed Dec 17, 2008 4:36 pm

Jr.cubbuilder,
Well, that news SUCKS!!! I just picked up Jet-Boil that was discounted. I was going to throw it in the back of the plane for an emergency but if it doesn't work at cold temps I may as well leave it home. The temps here have been WAY below zero for the last few days with the windchills approaching 40 below. But then I'm not dumb enough to be out flying in that temp any way.
Please keep us posted on your testing.
WW
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Wed Dec 17, 2008 4:53 pm

The beauty of the JetBoil system is the insulated boiler pot, right? It's supposed to melt snow and some ungodly rate with good heat throughput. If the problem is just rate of vaporization of the cold prop/butane mix in super cold temps, just rig up an aluminum shield around the base unit while it's going. The temp in there will come way up, allowing for better vaporization.

I use a thin hand-malleable aluminum wind shield around my MSR, and it improves heat output to the pot immensely. I'd think the JetBoil would benefit from the same.

On my trip to the Grand Canyon this year I bought an MSR Pocket Rocket, which is canister powered like the JetBoil. Couldn't take fuel on the commercial flight, so just buying those $4.95 canisters at your destination really works out well.

I still like my Whisperlite though...17 years and going strong. It'll burn AvGas if I really need it to. I just don't want to huff that leaded exhaust.
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Wed Dec 17, 2008 4:54 pm

As a backup to my MSR gas stove, I have one of these compact wood burning stoves. It's made from some repurposed tin cans, and works astonishingly well:

http://site283.webhost4life.com/afmservices/trailgear/compactstove/falk-compact-stove.htm
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Wed Dec 17, 2008 5:25 pm

I've got an old svea 123, I think it is. Completely reliable, no moving parts, old as I am, but works better. I actually have several stoves, the svea and a small Coleman are the best. If you have a supply of Coleman fuel, the svea is the ticket, but the little Coleman runs fine off of JetA, which is a plus if that's all you can be sure of.
The svea is a complete kit with several pots and pans that nest inside of each other. I'm sure it has been out of production for many years, too simple, no gadgets.
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Wed Dec 17, 2008 5:32 pm

The Jetboil is for the REI types who trip to the MTS on the weekend and are lucky to get out of the car or off the trail. It does do a good job, you just need to keep the canister from freezing up as you experienced. You cannot put much in a jet boil either except soup or some other form of liquid.

The MSR can burn white gas, car gas, av gas, hell...drink enough booze the night before you may be able to burn the yellow gas...seriously.

There is a reason why the MSR stoves are taken to remote mtn tops in very cold weather....It can mean your survival....

I do have a couple jetboils...there great for summer or a day trip in the backcountry...just do not rely on it in the real cold.
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Wed Dec 17, 2008 6:34 pm

I was wrong, it's still made.
http://www.gearforadventure.com/Product ... a&click=14
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Wed Dec 17, 2008 6:47 pm

I have an old MSR XGK,it will burn anything flammable.
The MSR that I have,has worked flawless for 15-18 years.
My only complaint is that it sounds like a 747 on takeoff,but it will get some water hot in no time.
Deffinetly not a wisper lite :lol:

Have fun,and be safe.C
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Wed Dec 17, 2008 7:54 pm

My cooking needs are pretty light duty, heck here in the summer just set your cup on a flat rock to boil water in no time:~)

Been using a little alcohol Simon Stove last few years, ultralight, ultra simple and works well enough to warm up lunch or a hot drink.
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Wed Dec 17, 2008 8:00 pm

Anybody remember those fuel tablet stoves you used to be able to get at the Army Surplus? It was a little 3-winged unit with these flammable dry fuel tablets. Kinda neat.
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Wed Dec 17, 2008 8:14 pm

I've had my MSR for many years. No need to carry any stove fuel. I also carry a 4" section of stove pipe during cold weather camping. After breakfast is cooked, set the stove under the cowl, put the pipe on time and get the oil warmed up.
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Wed Dec 17, 2008 8:19 pm

I didn't read through every reply on this topic. But has anyone tried to use a sterno fuel can that you use for chaffing dishes. We used to use them sterno cans and if I remember right, those little cans would get the water in those pans damn near boiling.

I'll have to get one and test it out.
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Wed Dec 17, 2008 8:20 pm

1SeventyZ wrote:Anybody remember those fuel tablet stoves you used to be able to get at the Army Surplus? It was a little 3-winged unit with these flammable dry fuel tablets. Kinda neat.


You'd think a pilot would know better than to describe something as "3-winged"! :)

They're called ESBIT stoves. I like the light weight, dislike the fact that the fuel tablets are more expensive per use than a gas stove.
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Wed Dec 17, 2008 8:38 pm

I remember those army fuel sticks. There's a canteen attachment (a sleeve that fits on the bottom and acts as a small stand) that we used to use to set a cup full of water over the stick once it was lit. We used to cook ramen, coffee, etc. They are very light and can still be found. It's amazing the things you could do with a canteen cup and a little drive!
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Wed Dec 17, 2008 10:43 pm

wilm tel wrote:My only complaint is that it sounds like a 747 on takeoff


Sounds like warmth, comfort, hot food, and survival, to me. I love hearing that roar. Nothing happier, sometimes
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Thu Dec 18, 2008 8:51 am

Be careful with the heat tabs. For one thing the flame is almost invisable, the first time I used one I thought I couldn't get it to light, so I picked it up to try to light the edge. Don't do that, it hurt for a long time :oops: .
I think the things give off chlorine gas when they burn, whatever it is, it's worse than CO.
Ever tried the MRE heaters? The ones that don't burn, you add water to the bag and they get hot? We used two in Bosnia, the first one thawed the food and the second one made it hot.
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Thu Dec 18, 2008 9:12 am

a64pilot wrote:Ever tried the MRE heaters? The ones that don't burn, you add water to the bag and they get hot? We used two in Bosnia, the first one thawed the food and the second one made it hot.


They actually made a different MRE for up in the arctic. You have to heat up water with a stove and pour it into a freeze-dried food packet. They (the evil government, see recent Ted Kennedy thread) didn't want people to use their non-frozen water on fueling the heater. They're not bad, but lots of work and you end up going back through all the discussions above on heating the water.
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