I'm heading north this weekend in my friends Citabria. We don't want to haul the wing covers, etc. as we are tight for space. We do have a weed sprayer and plumbers antifreeze at my camp - if we heat that and use it for defrosting, are there any concerns with it harming the fabric?

thx.

garth

Garth,

I would seriously re consider your decision about not taking your wing covers.

I've heard of folks using windshield washer fluid, but you're still going to want to heat it and find a way to spray it, plus I'm not sure how well it will stay on the wing, I'd also be concerned with dogs licking it up if they have any critters.

If you got the covers, I'd wager it'll be less work to just haul them with you.

I use to do that all the time when I had a little Cessna 120. If I brought all my covers there was no room for a tooth brush in that little plane. I just carried two aerosol windshield deicers. Just bring them inside with you so it's nice and warm. One can will usually do all the wings and sometimes the tail too.
The weed sprayer also works great especially if you have a bucket heater for it or some other good way to heat. Bad fumes though.

I don't know what "plumbers anti freeze" is, do you? I used RV anti freeze a time or seven on an amphib Beaver......too tall for this kid to put covers on. Mixed it with hot water from the tap, and one 3 gallon sprayer de iced it even worst case.

Whatever that stuff is, you don't want to use it full strength in any case. All its for is to prevent the WATER you're spraying on the wing from freezing.

But, that stuff may be corrosive to aluminum......ask a plumber what it is?

MTV

Everclear in a spray bottle goes a long way... Use a little in the evening....to much and you won't have enough to de-ice in the morning......then again the morning after head ache, who'd want to fly?

Plumbers antifreeze is the same as RV antifreeze. In the end, we didn't need it but thanks for the answers. I think i'll get myself some propylene glycol - same stuff they use for commercial planes.

gear wrote:Plumbers antifreeze is the same as RV antifreeze. In the end, we didn't need it but thanks for the answers. I think i'll get myself some propylene glycol - same stuff they use for commercial planes.

I think a lot antifreeze is Propyl now, even engine coolant. So many engines have aluminum in them and they aren't all corroding to crap. Like you say, that's what commercial guys use, and it's been known to get/keep ice off of my 180.

Automotive antifreeze is all propylene now, ethylene glycol was banned due to its toxicity. The first thing I'd do when contemplating using
chemicals to deice/anti-ice a fabric covered aircraft is to check the maintenance instructions that came with the cover job. Different chemicals affect dope, poly, and latex finishes differently. Also, automotive windshield deicers can cause acrylics to etch so I'd want to
verify compatibility before using it on an acrylic windshield. Changing windshields isn't cheap or fun. As an A&P I'd recommend warm water to deice a fabric aircraft, or else just cover it. You could leave your covers in the hangar and use plastic painter's sheet or dollar store poncho's that are light and don't take up a lot of room. I'd personally only use chemical deicers on fabric aircraft if I had no other options left.

I carry a can of the Prestone de-icer in fall and winter to remove frost and ice from the ski bottoms and prop tips if they get coated. But it's toxic stuff according to this: http://www.co.vermilion.il.us/MSDS/SDS- ... 42_SDS.pdf

If that MSDS is current then the methanol may affect fabric and ethylene glycol is a poison to animals that might be nearby...like my Airedale.

For wing de-ice I use RV antifreeze in a small garden insecticide sprayer. If they put it in soft drinks to add texture and whatever so it's not likely to kill something right away. A shot of ETOH in the drink neutralizes the harmful components I'm told.

Gary

Right time of year to bump this thread...

Temps around here are about 28-30F, just cold enough for a good layer of frost on the wings.

Aluminum, not fabric.

Anybody have a preference between windshield washer fluid and RV antifreeze? Probably just a handheld spray bottle as applicator.

I'm hesitant to use automotive antifreeze because it is more viscous and I can imagine it will be harder to spray and more resistant to wicking off the wing.

Any reason to avoid the front windows? To date, the only thing that I've used on the window is Lemon Pledge and water. I can't imagine using a windshield scraper-- seems like a recipe for very scratched window.

[quote="PA1195"

For wing de-ice I use RV antifreeze in a small garden insecticide sprayer.

Gary[/quote]

X2. The RV antifreeze works well enough and is fairly harmless.



I also saw something distributed in a local rental club email. Apparently what they advocate is running a bag of hot water over the wing at wiping up all the melted water behind it. Never tried this but worth sharing:

"Here is how.
- Use a plastic bag filled with warm water - warmer than ice!
-Where do you get the plastic bag that holds warm water?
-From the alcove (entry) where you picked up the dispatch book.
-Where do you get warmer-than-ice water on a cold and frigid morning? From the restroom faucet at the flying club.
-Now here is the secret: Only ½ fill the tied-off (yes tie the plastic bag with your hand) after putting warm water in it.
-Very Important--Place the warm-water bag on the wing, and slide it along the surfaces with frost on them. Follow the warm-water bag immediately, with the clean terry-cloth towel. No space between the water bag and the towel.

Voila, you now have a dry frost-free wing. You can also use this technique to carefully remove the frost from the windscreen."

This is assuming the wing does not have VG's!

I'd use windshield washer fluid, not RV or automotive antifreeze. It's the most benign ice getter rid of around, much more benign then Everclear..... You can buy it by the 55 gallon drum, cheap, at a place that caters to over the road trucks. Not a truck stop but a heavy truck parts store. Last year I bought a couple drums ($115.00 each or so) and filled my tractor tires (75% anyway) with the stuff, as a counterweight. You will also end up with a couple plastic 55 gallon drums, useful for all kind of things, as a bonus

courierguy wrote:This is assuming the wing does not have VG's!

I'd use windshield washer fluid, not RV or automotive antifreeze. It's the most benign ice getter rid of around, much more benign then Everclear..... You can buy it by the 55 gallon drum, cheap, at a place that caters to over the road trucks. Not a truck stop but a heavy truck parts store. Last year I bought a couple drums ($115.00 each or so) and filled my tractor tires (75% anyway) with the stuff, as a counterweight. You will also end up with a couple plastic 55 gallon drums, useful for all kind of things, as a bonus

Right on, don't use auto antifreeze! Mostly because it's toxic. The stuff I'm talking about is the anitfreeze you put into the potable RV water lines over the winter. Link below. I'm guessing this is the same stuff as plumbers anti-freeze?

The brand in the link below is propoylene glycol which is used as a food preservative, in comestics and is marketed as a corrosion inhibitor. Similar to the type I fluid I used to spray on 737s. Make sure it isn't mixed with alcohol if possible.

https://www.westmarine.com/buy/west-marine---50-f-engine-water-system-antifreeze-gal--499848?cm_sp=Onsite-Recs-_-Related-Items-_-Desktop

Windshield de-ice fluid can contain Methanol (wood alcohol). It's somewhat toxic and there are claims it can corrode certain metals. Not sure I'd trust it on fabric dope unless tested. RV antifreeze contains propylene glycol which is generally safe and used as a food and beverage additive/thickener.

They both work by lowering the freezing point of water, and if heated before application, can melt surface frost and some ice. I'd be careful about spraying hollow control surfaces and make sure any liquid formed drains before flight so they remain balanced.

Gary

Thanks all, I used the windshield stuff yesterday and learned a good lesson about the value of one of those spray applicators. On amphibs the plane sits pretty tall and the only ladder I could find had me precariously positioned where I had to be close enough to hold onto the leading edge for support. It got a bit messy, splashing the fluid around out of the bottle.

Live and learn.