First post! I’m looking for some BCP expertise…

I want to get into tailwheel flying and have a possible lead on a clean Cessna 140A. I’m a newly minted private pilot with zero tailwheel time.

Mission would include evening pleasure flights, short weekend XC’s and the occasional XC of 200+ miles to northern MN, and tailwheel time building in general.

The 140A interests me because it’s one of the few aircraft that’ll work with my budget, has an electrical system, no fabric, is economical to operate, and I don’t need to get places in that big of a hurry. And I think they look awesome sitting on the ramp. They seem relatively simple so hoping maintenance costs stay low. This one has a recently overhauled C90, low TT, fresh paint, and appears in excellent shape throughout. I’m not to the point of a prebuy inspection so it has not been gone through with a fine tooth comb by an A&P yet.

Does any of you have any opinions on if the 140A would be a good plane for my mission? And personal experiences (good and bad) would be great too!

Thanks in advance!

I started in a 120 and my family has had 4 120/140s including an A model. They are very underrated in my opinion with classic looks, easy maintenance, decent cruise, and good community. However, very few people keep them forever. The A model is more stable on gusty days and metal wings save you some trouble. The 140a has c90 has great torque and better suited to the plane than the 0-200s. Downsides to the model are fair visibilty, difficulty getting in them, flaps are ineffective(though better on A), and cabin is a little tight for big people. They are easy taildraggers. Harder than a 170 but far easier than skywagon. If you find a good A model jump on it. They are rare. I would seize the opportunity to buy back our A model.

Welcome Driftless. The Cessna 140 is an excellent airplane to learn in and continue flying in many situations. It is faster than similar powered Cubs, Champs, etc. and the gear is a bit wider but also springier. Both pilots can see better than in tandems, where the instructor has to pretty much rely on what you see out front. Don't get your heart set on one airplane, however, until the pre-buy and actually visiting the owner gives you a much better picture of what is good, bad, and ugly. MTV is up your way and would be able to give more specific advice on airplane model particulars.

I was lucky enough to be the first Army ROTC cadet to use the ROTC Flight Program to get a Commercial rather than Private license. I wasn't approved until 01 Jun of my senior year. I flew 36 hours at Downtown Airport in Springfield. Missouri that June all in the Cessna 140A graduating and being commissioned 24 Jun after the commercial check ride in the 140. I had soloed in a 90 hp SuperCub at Jeffco in 63 and liked that airplane better for flying solo, but preferred to instruct in side by side. I also taught crop dusting from the back seat of SuperCubs and the lack of good visibility in the direction of flight was exciting but less comfortable.

There are two way to keep all airplanes going straight, both on short final and on the surface. The first is to let gust spread on short final or the natural tendency with cg behind the gear of the airplane to want to switch ends on the ground and then correct with rudder yaw. With that technique the instructor will be a little tighter on the controls with you and that means you will not likely learn as quickly. We learn best by doing. The second technique is dynamic proactive rudder movement continuously on taxi, takeoff, short final, landing, roll out, and taxi back to tiedown. If you have read my posts, this is what I call tail wagging which gives much better preventive control than wing wagging. Ailerons are a serious distraction to learning to control the beast part of the beast. Yes, MTV, we need aileron into the wind and more of it as we slow down. That is seperate from rudder work and that is where confusion begins. There are many places, like short final, where coordination of aileron and rudder are just wing wagging. Anyway, while dynamic proactive prevents the instructor from riding the rudder so closely and allows you to learn much faster, he is a little further behind on taking over completely to save the airplane from a bad miscalculation on your part. The beauty of dynamic proactive (walking the rudder pedals) is that it prevents and both gross movement (best when slow) and fine movement (best when fast) always work so long as we are dynamic with either the gross or fine. What I am saying is that you don't have to worry about how much as you do with the reactive technique. Thus the airplane will give you time to learn. The other way it is totally up to the individual instructor when you will actually learn. From that point, regardless of technique, you are on your own.

It is not that hard. You can practice dynamic proactive by balancing a broom with the end of the handle on your palm. Don't practice dynamic proactive in your automobile. Unfortunately we all have too much muscle memory to turn with the yoke. That only works well in the Ercoupe.

Have fun.

Sounds like a good plane for the mission. The first thing you need to do is find a runway hopefully with a hanger for you plane next find a IA on that runway that is willing to take care of the plane. Do not look at any plane until the IA has approved the relationship between you and the aircraft might work!! It is the IA that will do the Annual inspection and sign the plane off as airworthy so having anyone else do a pretty inspection is asking for trouble. I have seen numerous times when a pre buy is done by a A&P or IA, they say it is good to go, only to have a different IA at the time of annual to say it needs several thousand dollars of work to get the annual approved. Here is a list of things to strongly consider before looking at any aircraft.
1. Make contact with a IA that is willing to do the annual and take on the care of whatever you buy and train you in proper care of the aircraft . The IA should be at home airport if at all possible.
2. Find a local airport to work fly out of. A hanger will make you life a lot better, it does not to be pretty or special, just a safe dry place for the plane. Tie downs will work but it takes a lot of effort to keep a plane outside in the winter.
3. Locate a good instructor for training, He/she should have a lot of tailwheel time if possible.
4. Make sure you have a good tie down gear (no ratchet straps) and safety kit ready for the new plane.
If you have not started on the above list, get it done before you buy a plane or you are going down a expensive road of playing catch up.
DENNY

All good advice. Or do what most of us did - buy it and work it out.

Awesome first plane IMNSHO.

Sounds like an excellent candidate, especially if you plan on building hours solo.

I'm particularly fond of the 140A as my grandfather had one.

When I started looking for a plane after I had loosely defined its mission the C140 was also among possible candidates. Low and slow, hopping from one camping site to the next…
Useful load immediately became the crucial parameter, and the one which is often quoted rather “optimistically” in sales ads.
Inviting a friend even for a short leg with all my camp stuff on board would’ve been next to impossible and ultimately eliminated the 140 from my list. Even so two really nice looking 140A’s tempted me - both north of the border, (un)fortunately.

Ironically I got my tailwheel endorsement in a 140 (with an O-200), pretty straightforward, no problems.

With that very limited exposure to the 140 and some experience in the 170B I eventually bought I wouldn’t say that her little sister is more difficult to land.

So if your flying fits into the weight envelope of a 140A candidate I’d go for it!

Two of my form students bought a pretty 140A to build time. I checked them both out in the plane. They both built time in it to qualify for flying jobs, had it for a couple years, then sold it back to the guy they bought it from for about the same price.

Great little time builder, cruiser and teacher. The A’s are best in breed and scarce…..if it’s a good one, grab it.

You’ll sort out the details soon enough.

MTV

Just buy it, fly it until you are tired of it, sell it. Figure out all the details on the roll - thread title says "first plane" not "final plane" so I would personally recommend tying it outside at the airport that is the closest to you and be there often. Even just to clean the plane, look at it, fondle it, whatever - be there often. "An airplane is safe in a hangar but that is not what airplanes are built for" or some shit like that.

I hate the word mission. Makes it seem like everyone is out here flying with some greater purpose - I'd bet that 92.4% of the (non-professional) flying done by people on this website could be done in a 140A.

That's it for today's "pre-coffee opinions by Asa"

asa wrote:Just buy it, fly it until you are tired of it, sell it. Figure out all the details on the roll - thread title says "first plane" not "final plane" so I would personally recommend tying it outside at the airport that is the closest to you and be there often. Even just to clean the plane, look at it, fondle it, whatever - be there often. "An airplane is safe in a hangar but that is not what airplanes are built for" or some shit like that.

I hate the word mission. Makes it seem like everyone is out here flying with some greater purpose - I'd bet that 92.4% of the (non-professional) flying done by people on this website could be done in a 140A.

That's it for today's "pre-coffee opinions by Asa"

Yup! Buy it and enjoy. Part of the problem with the “mission concept” is when you’re new to this, you won’t know what your mission is, and even if you do, it’ll likely change fairly soon.

140A is a really sweet plane.

MTV

Hi Driftless,

I have owned a 1947 C140 with the C-90 for 3 years now. I am pretty happy with it, every once in a while I will want to go faster or land shorter or take more stuff. However when I look at my requirements 95% of the time the C140 is the prefect fit. Here a few things about 140s you should know:

The advertised empty weight is 900lbs but most are 50 - 100lbs overweight, I'd recommend actually weighing the AC before purchase. Maybe its inflation. With full fuel you are going to be limited on passengers and baggage. I only fuel up one tank.

When Cessna built the 120 and early 140s the gear legs were straight, this led to some nose overs. At some point in 1947 Cessna changed to swept forward gear legs and offered to add gear leg "extenders" to the straight leg models. Over the years out of fear of nosing over, the extenders were added to some swept forward gear. If you see a 140A with extenders it might be a red flag of some misinformed maintenance practices.

The cowl latches are a PITA, they are hard to find and expensive. There's an STC to change to a simpler style.

As said already, flaps aren't what most people expect of flaps. They mostly add drag, there is a slight change in angle off attack. They are better then not having flaps IMAO.

I had a little bit of time in a C170 and Luscombe before purchasing my 140. I would say the 140 is more docile the both. Don't worry to much about the tailwheel thing, its just another skill. Like anything in aviation, take your time to learn the ins and out of whatever you buy. Set personal minima for cross winds etc and work up to the limit.

Buying an airplane is soooo much fun. Enjoy.

Marshall

MRebel wrote:Hi Driftless,

I have owned a 1947 C140 with the C-90 for 3 years now. I am pretty happy with it, every once in a while I will want to go faster or land shorter or take more stuff. However when I look at my requirements 95% of the time the C140 is the prefect fit. Here a few things about 140s you should know:

The advertised empty weight is 900lbs but most are 50 - 100lbs overweight, I'd recommend actually weighing the AC before purchase. Maybe its inflation. With full fuel you are going to be limited on passengers and baggage. I only fuel up one tank.

When Cessna built the 120 and early 140s the gear legs were straight, this led to some nose overs. At some point in 1947 Cessna changed to swept forward gear legs and offered to add gear leg "extenders" to the straight leg models. Over the years out of fear of nosing over, the extenders were added to some swept forward gear. If you see a 140A with extenders it might be a red flag of some misinformed maintenance practices.

The cowl latches are a PITA, they are hard to find and expensive. There's an STC to change to a simpler style.

As said already, flaps aren't what most people expect of flaps. They mostly add drag, there is a slight change in angle off attack. They are better then not having flaps IMAO.

I had a little bit of time in a C170 and Luscombe before purchasing my 140. I would say the 140 is more docile the both. Don't worry to much about the tailwheel thing, its just another skill. Like anything in aviation, take your time to learn the ins and out of whatever you buy. Set personal minima for cross winds etc and work up to the limit.

Buying an airplane is soooo much fun. Enjoy.

Marshall

Mostly good advice here. But a couple of points: I believe that Cessna fixed the gear leg issues on the 140A. But in any case, a plane with the extenders is fine and one without just suggests you be a bit more gentle on braking. Back when the 120 and 140 came out, most/many pilots were used to really ineffective heel brakes, and Cessna toe brakes have prompted many “oopses” over the years. The extenders were just an easy way to make nose overs a bit harder to accomplish. The extenders are fine.

Second, the 140A does have very different flaps than the 140, not quite the full “Para-Lift” flaps of the 150, but pretty close. They are indeed much more effective than the 140 flaps.

The 140A is more like a tailwheel 150 than it is like a 140.

MTV