mtv wrote:I’ve only flown one Cessna with a swept tail that’d been converted to tailwheel. I was not impressed, and I would NOT go there. Rudder authority was definitely lacking. I’ve also heard this from others as well, pilots who I trust.

MTV

Plus, they just look funny with the swept tail and the 'omni-vision'.

C180_guy wrote:

allPrimes wrote:Also, as of 2020-10-08, it didn't have ADSB but that's not mentioned in the barnstormers ad.

I see that as a positive

Legit curious: why?

Like I wrote earlier, I’m new to GA and going through a steep learning curve.

allPrimes wrote:

C180_guy wrote:

allPrimes wrote:Also, as of 2020-10-08, it didn't have ADSB but that's not mentioned in the barnstormers ad.

I see that as a positive

Legit curious: why?

Like I wrote earlier, I’m new to GA and going through a steep learning curve.

He's of the opinion that it's an overreach of government to mandate ADS-B, which is effectively logged aircraft tracking. There are technical intricacies that make "anonymous" mode not so anonymous with certain installations and handling of the protocol.

Others feel the benefits outweigh the negatives like above. Traffic alerts, collision avoidance, flight following, free weather data.

In the context of an aircraft purchase, it requires equipment purchase decisions be made, and if it's already done for you then you lose out on those decisions. On the other hand, it's labor and cost you don't need to be troubled with.

Zzz wrote:

allPrimes wrote:

C180_guy wrote:

allPrimes wrote:Also, as of 2020-10-08, it didn't have ADSB but that's not mentioned in the barnstormers ad.

I see that as a positive

Legit curious: why?

Like I wrote earlier, I’m new to GA and going through a steep learning curve.

He's of the opinion that it's an overreach of government to mandate ADS-B, which is effectively logged aircraft tracking. There are technical intricacies that make "anonymous" mode not so anonymous with certain installations and handling of the protocol.

Others feel the benefits outweigh the negatives like above. Traffic alerts, collision avoidance, flight following, free weather data.

In the context of an aircraft purchase, it requires equipment purchase decisions be made, and if it's already done for you then you lose out on those decisions. On the other hand, it's labor and cost you don't need to be troubled with.

I can think of a few reasons off the top of my head that especially in Alaska having ADS-B out installed may actually devalue the airplane:
1 - Alaskans are very protective of their favorite hunting/fishing locations, sometimes spending years "developing" a remote strip and want to keep it for themselves.
2 - Additional safety is unproven - its primary design wasn't to aid in safety (TCAS already did that), but for aircraft surveillance. I noticed pilots with ADS-B out tend to stay quiet on the radio (need more data to verify though), while also spending less time looking out the window (verified). For example I noticed that I spend more time trying to find the targets already seen on the ADS-B in box, then looking elsewhere (need to change that!). Also see this: https://www.alaskapublic.org/2019/05/15 ... ent-wrong/
3 - FAA badgering - there was a recent discussion on Alaska pilot's facebook group about guys getting badgered by the FAA because their signal was getting lost (i.e. flying low, around terrain, etc.).
4 - Landing fees - already started (https://www.planeandpilotmag.com/articl ... ds-b-data/).
5 - Once installed, you can't uninstall.

Therefore, being in Alaska, and not in required ADS-B out rule airspace, if I had a choice of with or without ADS-B out, I would choose without, everything else being equal of course.

AKclimber wrote:5 - Once installed, you can't uninstall.

There is nothing in the regulation that I've seen which prevents one from "uninstalling" an ADS-B unit.....depending on the unit, however, it might be costly.

MTV

I can think of a few reasons off the top of my head that especially in Alaska having ADS-B out installed may actually devalue the airplane:
1 - Alaskans are very protective of their favorite hunting/fishing locations, sometimes spending years "developing" a remote strip and want to keep it for themselves.

Makes sense. Hell, I don't even like sharing my huckleberry and morel harvesting spots, let alone my small-stream trout honey holes, and I found those on foot.

2 - Additional safety is unproven - its primary design wasn't to aid in safety (TCAS already did that), but for aircraft surveillance. I noticed pilots with ADS-B out tend to stay quiet on the radio (need more data to verify though), while also spending less time looking out the window (verified). For example I noticed that I spend more time trying to find the targets already seen on the ADS-B in box, then looking elsewhere (need to change that!). Also see this: https://www.alaskapublic.org/2019/05/15 ... ent-wrong/

Funny you say this. My CFI keeps his iPad with foreflight and traffic on his knee. When BZN Approach gives us a traffic advisory, my eyes are out the window but his head goes down. From your link, clearly there are more than a few pilots that consider ADSB + foreflight as the be-all, end-all of traffic avoidance rather than their eyeballs.

Therefore, being in Alaska, and not in required ADS-B out rule airspace, if I had a choice of with or without ADS-B out, I would choose without, everything else being equal of course.

All of your points make sense. If my mission were only in D, low, inshore E, or G, I doubt I'd consider it either. Thanks for laying out your reasons.

mtv wrote:

AKclimber wrote:5 - Once installed, you can't uninstall.

There is nothing in the regulation that I've seen which prevents one from "uninstalling" an ADS-B unit.....depending on the unit, however, it might be costly. MTV

Once removed, no reason why you can't re-sell the ADS-B to recoup some of your expense.
At least some of them are easily user-programmable.

I'm not a big fan of ADS-B in, or out,
but chose to install ADS-B out because of my proximity to and frequent flights through "rule airspace".
I installed a cheapie ADS-B in unit, I'm undecided on whether it's an advantage or a distraction.
At this point, it's kind of a push I think.