I'm starting to put together the parts need to overhaul my engine. I have intended to comply with the overhaul instructions but I've hit a snag. There is a expensive part listed in the mandatory replacement parts list that I don't have. Replacement of this part is required unless it is the current version. Unfortunately the current version of this part was left attached to another part that was sent in for overhaul which subsequently failed inspection. I have been unsuccessful in getting back the parts that were left attached. I was frustrated but had decided to let it go because I thought I could just use the parts from my other core engine. Well, those parts aren't the current version.

How big of deal is it that I can't comply with the overhaul instructions and therefore can't call the engine work an overhaul? I'm thinking maybe it isn't a big deal because it is going on an experimental and I'd venture a guess that most engines on experimentals aren't true overhauls anyways.

Sounds like HOPEIUM.

You will likely fly with the nagging haunting question - Is now when it fails?

You do not say what the part is. Is it internal or a bolt on accessory case part?

I would not want to be over anywhere and have an engine part fail.

There is the price and then there is the COST!

Sincerely Trim.

I'm still trying to get the part back which is why I was vague. I'm just trying to decide how hard to push. The part can be replaced without splitting the case and according to the factory rep I talked to the old one I have will work just fine with no additional concern of failure, I'll send it in for inspection before assembly, but it just doesn't meet the requirement in the replacement part list.

There's a reason there's an updated part.....

hardtailjohn wrote:There's a reason there's an updated part.....

I agree but the couple shops I've talked to said they wouldn't hesitate to use it if the customer was ok with an engine repair instead of an overhaul. I hate to spend a couple grand on a new part because I got screwed by a "reputable" shop.

Whee;

When the parts did not pass muster did you give them the part? If not they still belong to you and you should press the shop to get them back. If they disposed of them without your permission, well the shop may be in the spot of getting you a new one.

Just my 0.02.

I would say since its experimental, don't get to hung up on being able to call it an overhaul. What part are you needing?

soaringhiggy wrote:Whee; When the parts did not pass muster did you give them the part? If not they still belong to you and you should press the shop to get them back. ....

x2. If it's no good, they should have no problem with returning it, provided you pay the shipping.
If someone fussed about returning an allegedly bad part, my first thought is that maybe it isn't bad & they want to keep it to sell to someone else. Of course, I'm a glass-half-empty kinda guy, and suspicious by nature to boot.

I'm not very good at diplomacy, so this might piss ya off, but here goes:
It seems like you've gotten bit in the ass a couple times trying to save money:
bargain priced fuselage that turned out to have been shortened, bargain priced core engine that turned out to be fucked up, maybe others. I would suggest replacing whatever part you're talking about if that's what's required to call it a "major overhaul". IMHO that would add to the value if you should decide to sell the engine or airplane.

I know a couple different people who dropped lots of money into engine repairs, both doing basically a major overhaul of the lower end. Both guys just bolted the left-alone cylinders back on, saving maybe a few grand vs having them OH'd also. They both ended up regretting that decision when they put their airplanes up for sale not long after-- instead of a value-adding "zero since major overhaul", they had an extensive engine repair in their logbooks that did nothing to increase the sale price but did wave a red flag at buyers.

soaringhiggy wrote:Whee;

When the parts did not pass muster did you give them the part? If not they still belong to you and you should press the shop to get them back. If they disposed of them without your permission, well the shop may be in the spot of getting you a new one.

I'd bet the only way they would be convinced to replace the part is if I hired an attorney and I don't want to go there.

Bdiazair wrote:I would say since its experimental, don't get to hung up on being able to call it an overhaul. What part are you needing?

That's kinda my thinking. Like I said earlier, I'd bet most "overhauls" used in experimentals aren't true overhauls.

hotrod180 wrote:

soaringhiggy wrote:Whee; When the parts did not pass muster did you give them the part? If not they still belong to you and you should press the shop to get them back. ....

I'm not very good at diplomacy, so this might piss ya off, but here goes:
It seems like you've gotten bit in the ass a couple times trying to save money:
bargain priced fuselage that turned out to have been shortened, bargain priced core engine that turned out to be fucked up, maybe others. I would suggest replacing whatever part you're talking about if that's what's required to call it a "major overhaul". IMHO that would add to the value if you should decide to sell the engine or airplane.

I know a couple different people who dropped lots of money into engine repairs, both doing basically a major overhaul of the lower end. Both guys just bolted the left-alone cylinders back on, saving maybe a few grand vs having them OH'd also. They both ended up regretting that decision when they put their airplanes up for sale not long after-- instead of a value-adding "zero since major overhaul", they had an extensive engine repair in their logbooks that did nothing to increase the sale price but did wave a red flag at buyers.

I'm not good at "diplomacy" either. I'd rather have a frank conversation than beat around the bush.

Your pretty much right. I always look for a deal and usually end up underwater. I don't really look at my fuselage that way but I can see your point. BTW, it was lengthened 2" not shortened.

They probably saved more than a couple grand by not doing an overhaul because the list of required replacement parts is long and expensive. When they did the major work on the bottom end I doubt they used new through bolts, new rods bolts, new counterweight pins and bushings, new cylinder nuts, overhauled the mags and starter, etc. All that stuff and more is required if you want an overhaul.

Think I'm getting a little into the weeds. I don't really want to spend $2300 on one part so I can write "overhaul" in the logs when I have a perfectly good and legal replacement. Since the engine is going on an a EAB and I'll be doing most of the engine work this doesn't seem like a big deal to me.

Whee,

If you are doing the assembly of the engine yourself and you are not an A&P, P being the relevant one, than even if you follow the factory overhaul specs, this will not be a true overhaul. An overhaul needs to have log book entries from appropriately rated shops and mechanics. What you will have is a experimental engine. It can not be put back on a certified airplane if you do the overhaul, unless it is overhauled again and really the only way to launder away the experimental history is to send it to the factor for a factor reman with 0 time log book.

That being considered, you can do anything you want to this engine if you are rebuilding it. It will be experimental so build it the way you want to. Change the compression or add electronic ignition, whatever you are comfortable flying behind. Resale is definitely a concern so make sure your choices keep that in mind. If you are comfortable reusing this part, it has no bearing on the "overhaul" of an experimental engine.

I personal had a shop overhaul my Lycoming and it is now considered experimental because I do the maintenance and sign of the log as the repairman. So even if you get a factory new engine, unless an A&P is signing the log books for all maintenance, then you have an "experimental" engine on your airplane. This is not a bad thing unless you ever want to put that engine back on a certified aircraft.