I have tools scattered across 3000 miles. Have many different kinds Snap On, Craftsman, Proto etc. I needed a set of wrenches and was at Sears last week. Bought a set of 12 point combination wrenches and some socket sets because I had always had good luck with Craftsman and they are inexpensive. Opened the wrenches and started to use the 1/2" on some nuts. the wrench immediately felt different to me so I looked at it. The head of the open end side was noticeably "clubby" compared to my older wrenches. Also looking at the closed end side it was slightly thicker. Out of curiosity I checked the packaging and sure enough in small print on the back down low was "Made in China". What the hell. I checked the socket sets and they read "Made in USA". I will take them back if I can find my receipt.

Well that would sure suck. I guess there's still eBay.

Probably from the same batch of Pittsburgh end wrenches

But seriously, that sucks. I have a lot of Craftsman tools, some 25+ years old. I've always felt they were a good compromise between quality and affordability, but times and companies change. There are entire forums FULL of this discussion about tool manufacture origins and who owns who.

Made in China is not always bad. Maybe economically for us it is, but in terms of quality, I have seen some diamonds in the rough amongst all the cheap shit. I try to evaluate everything independently.

People swear by Snap On but if you've ever had your grip slide off one of their polished end wrenches and punch something hard because your hand was greasy, you appreciate the more raw finish of some other brands.

I believe Sears still have Made in the USA tools. Just have to look at the packaging before buying. I noticed this last time I went looking for tools at Sears for my hangar. And another thing to be careful on this note is I believe their Lifetime Warrenty only covers the USA made tools.

I believe Stanely still makes a lot of tools in the USA, too.

http://www.stillmadeinusa.com/tools.html

Sigh...

Most of my tools are Craftsman...from 20 years ago. I also have some Blue Point stuff. I prefer the C- man stuff though. Over the years, Ive replaced some gear, an have hopeless problems with some of the newer sockets (too hard/brittle, fail easier).

It isn't as much where things are made as how well they are made. With tooling in my metal shop, even American parts surprise me at times with how schlocky they are at any price, and asian components sometimes surprise me with how good they are.

Times have changed...it seems to be 'buyer beware' more and more, regardless of brand value.

My tools are mostly Craftsman. My first were a Xmas gift from dad when I was a teenager, then I just kept adding on. Good quality and they were readily accessible at the local Sears store.. I own several 3/8" socket/rachet sets, but the last one I bought (a few years ago) they changed the rachet design on. The original was fine, worked great, why they changed I'll never know. Change for the sake of change, or more ikely for lower production costs. Like most things that get changed on me these days, the newer one is not as satisfactory.

I am seeing some pretty good toosl come from lowes now kobalt or something like that. They still aren't snap ons but for the price are great and might be better than C-man.

Could be just me, but I like having complete matching sets. Would piss me off if I had to return a single combination wrench to Sears, and the replacement didn't look and feel like the rest of my set, or fit in the same size holder, etc. I'd be on eBay trying to score the real mcCoy.

-DP

I took the original chicom set back to original store. Asked clerk when Craftsman started making their tools in China. all i could get was a half assed shrug.!!! Found another set of wrenches at another store USA made. Same part number on package. It was behind 3 other chinese sets. I assume they are phasing out USA. The usa pkg said packaging made in China but tools made in USA

It all starts with the consumer. If more people like you and I purchase "Made in the USA", we just might make a difference. But sad thing is, more than likely will never happen.

A few weeks ago, I purchased a new pair of insulated gloves. I choose to spend $10.00 more for a nice pair of Churchill gloves that were made in Centralia, WA. Even though I could have saved $10.00 and bought Chinese made, I feel even better that hopefully I helped keep a USA company in business!!

Yesterday, I looked a bunch of tools at the local Sears store.....every one I could find was made in China.....oh well.

MTV

I'm curious whether the Chinese wrenches were actually functionally inferior, or just offensive in their manufacture origin?

playing devils advocate?

googling 'Chinese steel quality' should give you days of reading related to why Chinese tools are so inferior.
It is not an imaginary offense to the tools origin, nor a discrimination against the people.
China has a serious quality control disease that begins at the lowest levels. Until they grow out of that they will
continue to suffer as a whole based on the quality of what may or may not be the majority...

IMHO buying Chinese is wrong on levels that far surpass their poor quality control, but that's another topic...

Tools? I buy American at every opportunity. Some of my precision tools are German, but I'm OK with that. I'm not OK with crap tools no matter where they come from. If they said made in the USA and equally came apart in my hands I'd probably be even more disappointed in them than the Harbor Freight Chinese crap. Fortunately that doesn't happen a lot...

But tools, are not so much an American Icon.... want severe disappointment? Try going into a Boot Barn sometime.... For those that aren't in touch with their redneck side, Boot Barn is a 'Cowboy apparel' store. Although not much of a redneck type, I recently went to Boot Barn to get some polish for my Red Wings (Thank goodness the best of their line is still made in America)... Anyways, with the holidays coming up, I started looking at Cowboy boots for my wonderfully redneck daughter... Saying that 90% of the boots sold at Boot Barn were made in SE Asia would not be an understatement... Now I know clothing is not such a big deal as a tool that should last a lifetime, but c'mon already...
Cowboy boots from China? What do the chinese know about being cowboy?
25 years ago we had Ronald Regan, Johnny Cash, and Bob Hope Today we have Obama, no Cash and no Hope!

Carry on

Which side of the fence does the wrench forged in the USA but sourced with Chinese alloy fall? I've seen the slugs that Snap On uses going into the die press but I couldn't see any origin on the actual steel. Rob, I know you can write another paragraph.

i was really just curious about the "stubby" part, don't mistake that for political opinion. My Craftsman wrenches are old, but still a little stubby, a little less refined than my dad's old Proto open end wrenches.

The topic can go deep. I own a lot of newer Makita and Bosch power tools (made in China), the quality of which I think are great by modern standards, but certainly not on par with the Black and Decker 90 degree drill motor I inherited from my grandfather that is made from cast aluminum which must have been made in the early 60's. The Klein screwdrivers I bought, thinking they were made in the USA, literally smell like catshit from some unfortunate blend of polymers used in the handles.

Having a USA-only criteria makes life hard, just like any blind blanket policy. Like I said, the topic goes deep and gets emotional and easily runs aground of tangential issues that a working slob like me barely understands. Sometimes the cheap Chinese shit is designed by an American engineer and works pretty well.

Rob wrote:Cowboy boots from China? What do the chinese know about being cowboy?

Those are sheep of course, but I'm sure his skills are transferrable. Probably has very few Merle Haggard CDs though.

Rob wrote:What do the chinese know about being cowboy?

I'm pretty sure the Mongols would split a gut laughing over the American concept of "Cowboys". I do know they swept up Western civilization almost to the brink in a matter of several years on horseback. Twice, as a matter of fact. And the American sort sometimes falls short...literally.
http://www.greatfallstribune.com/news/s ... 21003.html

On the issue of steel, I've had a lot of problems with steel certs from both the USA and China. The problem is so widespread, people routinely have their own tests done on coupons before accepting larger shipments of stock. If any of you like to melt metal as a hobby, you know how easy it is to make steel too hard (and consequently too brittle/weak).

Quality control is going to the lowest common denominator, both in the US and abroad. We're a WalMart nation now when it comes to finished goods. Good tools are found at estate sales and auctions.

Zzz wrote:Those are sheep of course, but I'm sure his skills are transferrable. Probably has very few Merle Haggard CDs though.

I wouldn't bet too much money on that. One of the things the US is still extraordinarily effective at exporting is its culture!

One of the high schools here in Mexico had a class field trip to my little town over the weekend (halloween is a *huge* holiday here lasting three days and including visits to cemeteries to picnic with deceased relatives). Anyway, as they left the town square the girls were being goofy, loud high school girls and singing at the top of their lungs. What were they singing? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5qm8PH4xAss&t=47

Rob wrote:playing devils advocate?

googling 'Chinese steel quality' should give you days of reading related to why Chinese tools are so inferior.
It is not an imaginary offense to the tools origin, nor a discrimination against the people.
China has a serious quality control disease that begins at the lowest levels. Until they grow out of that they will
continue to suffer as a whole based on the quality of what may or may not be the majority...

IMHO buying Chinese is wrong on levels that far surpass their poor quality control, but that's another topic...

Hey, I'd like to chime in again on this note.

When I worked at Yamaha (Racing), we had a few different machinist vendors we used and one of them was machining some motocross bike parts for the team (specifically sets of triple clamps). After the team received the first batch of solid Aluminum CNCed triple clamps to verify quality and specs, the vendor continued on with a fairly large order of triple clamps. Well, after receiving the rest of the clamps and using them on some race bikes, there became a trend of some failed clamps, including complete breakage of one set (thankfully the rider was not seriously hurt!). Well, the team investigated the aluminum being used to manufacture these clamps and noticed a complete difference of grade and quality from the first batch to the second batch. Well, the vendor admitted that he switched from a USA Made aluminum blocks to much cheaper Chinese blocks. The team no longer uses that vendor to this day.

Now, the Yamaha racing team in Cypress uses their own dedicated CNC machinist and purchases all material for him.