sounds like he flew her till she stopped, to me...

I had a pretty bad accident in my M5 Maule 10 years ago. I would agree to never stop flying it however in my case, fairly low time pilot (500 hours) I did not recognize the trouble I was really in until it was to late. I made poor decisions which ultimately lead to the crash and because of them I was a long for the ride at the very end. I won't bore you with the details of the crash but when I finally looked at my airspeed indicator and had the sinking feeling in the pit of my stomach it was to late, about that time the left wing stalled and from that moment forward it was no up to me any more, as luck would have it I was very close to the ground when this happened. The left wing was broke in half when the airplane hit the ground and the tree (10" diameter) I hit with the left side of the engine slowed us down, the landing gear was folded up around the front doors and we had to get out the airplane through the back door, we stopped in under 80 ft from the point of first impact. I hit my head hard (my shoulder harness did not work for some reason (maybe the angle we hit at), my uncles shoulder harness did work, he was bruised and sore for several week. I was not sore in the least (other than my head). We were 70 miles by gravel road from the nearest medical help and it was almost 6 hours from the time of the accident to the hospital.

It could have been different that day, #1 had I been 50 ft higher off the ground when I stalled, #2 had a fire broke out. I was knocked out on impact and don't remember any of the actual carnage as we came to a stop. I do know I was not thinking very clearly looking back on some more stupid things I did right after the accident. i.e. getting back in the airplane with fuel running out of the left tank, turning on the master and calling for help, not using my medical kit because I told my uncle I was not hurt that bad and I may need it some other time. etc.

The fact is we could both be dead, it could have gone either way that day. I think it is good to train, plan, and buy the stuff to keep you safe but the most important thing we all have is our brain and if we don't use it shit happens real fast in an airplane.

Greg

For some interesting insight into what happens at very high G loads, search on Col. John Paul Stapp, MD. Col. Stapp subjected himself to over 45g decelerations in a rocket sled. Properly restrained and protected from physical impact, the human body is pretty much the toughest component of any aircraft. Most crash related deaths are caused by blunt force trauma or post crash smoke inhalation.

As a spam can owner myself, the one thing I'll give you on the tube structure over aluminum skin is rebuildability. Tube structures tend to be much easier to repair after a crash than an aluminum skin structure.

Phil

Just remember....if you lose your engine beyond the range of an airport,....you dont own it anymore. The insurance company does. Dont be a hero. Land it so you can walk away. Period.

Update on the 'crash worthy' concept. As I stated at the beginning of the thread I also fly a Cessna. Mine happens to be a Skylane and I was (still) concerned about it's crash characteristics. I 'suffer' from the illusion that a steel tubular structural 'passenger cage' (please notice I did NOT say 'Crash cage') is superior to the angled aluminum of the Cessna breed of aircraft.(our resident 'sage' didn't dissuade me)
Well I like my Skylane's capabilities, so I soothed my concerns by treating it to a Sportsmans leading edge modification to reduce its stall speed. I further added Wing-X wing tips to reduce the stall speed slightly more. Now instead of stalling about 50 mph, It lands easily at just under 40 mph-loaded with a reasonable load (3 xl adults, 1m adult, 2/3 fuel).
That means there is a lot less energy to 'crumple' off getting stopped; therefore, SAFER.
At the same time I had front seat inerta reel 4 point seat belts/shoulder harnesses added and so the wing root attach point shoulder belt is gone. More safety.
Another consideration is the glide ratio has improved from about 8:1 to approx 14:1 with both Sportsmans and Wing-X on the wing. That greatly increases the odds of making it to somewhere there is reasonably smooth terrain. Much safer!
Also, the plane will reverse course in less than half the radius it use to-safely.
If anyone is wondering I took the plane to Polson, MT to have Steens install it all. VERY happy with the results.

lc

ain't that the truth, let the bird pay the price, put it down as slow as possible...might sound dumb, but after my crash in '05, wearing a helmet sounds and makes pretty good sense...take out trees or do whatever u have to, to keep it flying...your body just can't take too hard of a hit and keep on 'tickin.

having owned over 60 bikes, totalled out 2 helmets and etc, i'm a believer of finishing the job at hand when and if it all looks REALLY bad!

the real work will come AFTER the crash, when u have survived, and trying to get current again, and get that damn knot in your gut gone so u can live again. taking to the air once again, and having some turbulence slap u around gives u a new appreciation for different things...like taking complete control of your bird at ANY speed, and learning to control the bird in the slowflight config...i burn a lot of gas here above the house doin' 60 on the speedo, 20 on the flaps, doin' 180 turns in less than a 100'. helps give me good confindence i could stuff it most anywhere if needed. have been most fortunate for a few very good CFI's. some of u guys on here are true pros with 1000's of hrs, and i for one appreciate the help!

as for crash-worthy, my old 182 was bent bigtime, but the cockpit remained sound...fuselage took most of it, and i was still able to sell the wings and tail for another 182 that tumbled at sulphur, good deal for all!

Any time you are dependent on something mechanical (which will inevitably fail in some way at some time) and having some aspect of human involvement in it (design, construction, usage judgment et etc), it's not if it will happen, but when. In my opinion, if you're dependent on a mechanical device that will fail at some time, might as well get good at always looking for ditch sites along your flight, practice landing short, and/or get a parachute and have the wisdom to know when (and when not to) use it.

BRS Aerospace has rocket deployed ballistic parachutes available for a wide range of aircraft, including 172's, 182's among others, uncertified aircraft up to 1,800 lbs in weight and many LSA aircraft. http://www.brsaerospace.com/brs_aviation_home.aspx So far, out of just over 200 parachute deployments, a total of 250 people have been saved.http://www.brsparachutes.com/lives_saved.aspx

Also, for ultralights or other aircraft with gross weight up to 950 lbs, there is a non-rocket activated (and less expensive) parachute deployment system offered by PPC Canopies http://www.ppccanopies.com/products/erc/rpsseries/rpsprice.htm. The spring loaded canister is mounted on a wing strut and activated with a solid pull on a activation cord.

whynotfly wrote:Just remember....if you lose your engine beyond the range of an airport,....you dont own it anymore. The insurance company does. Dont be a hero. Land it so you can walk away. Period.

Reminds me of a motorcycle racer who told me never attempt to protect the bike with your body.

Whats more valuable:

A material airplane 20k or even 100k

Medivac to hospital 10k, surgery 30k, intensive care 40k, docs and hospital 50k, loss of income 50k, mental and physical pain priceless !

Remember its just metal and or fabric "save yourself" "save your passengers"

A group was coming back from Sun N Fun this year and one of them had his door pop open on downwind. Rather than land and close it he fiddled with it all the way around the approach. He got slow and spun it in turning downwind to base....still screwing with the door. The people there attributed that fact that he survived it due to the Avid/Kitfox triangulated Chromoly Fuse design. It acted like a roll cage basically. They said the cockpit was only thing left on the airplane that was recognizeable. Had he been in something else it may have been another story..hard telling. Chromoly is pretty amazing stuff.... Don't let a small situation turn into a big one!

OTOH if he had been in anything else the door night not have popped open

Cheapest help is still good shoulder harness. Just a lap belt, as most older planes came with, is not going to help in a sudden stop when your head hits the panel.

Lots of good comments here, and a few clunkers too.

As we all know, what kills most pilots and their passengers are two kinds of accidents:

1) stall/spin accidents
2) controlled flight into terrain

No. 1 is addressed by what many have said here: keep flying the plane, no matter what, never let anything else distract us from Job #1. This is the most easily preventable accident, yet it is one of the most common forms of "pilot error" after more than a century of powered flight.

No. 2 is usually a matter of lack of situational awareness, or in many cases disorientation resulting from a VFR pilot (or a non-current IFR pilot) flying into IMC. Along with No. 1 - these are the two most frequent and most easily preventable accidents.

Yes, an engine can quit due to mechanical failure, or (far more common) due to running out of gas. Being able to quckly establish best glide speed, doing the thing with fuel pumps or fuel tank selectors and carb heat etc. as appropriate, and then flying to the best available landing site (not necessarily an easy decision) are all extremely important tasks and skills.

However, most of us are far more likely to either stop flying the plane (1) , or to fly the plane right into the ground (2) . No airplane built today is that crashworthy.

The above stuff has only been said and/or written about a hundred million times or so, yet hundreds of pilots keep doing (1) or (2), over and over and over again, every year.

I guess it's inevitable that a certain percentage of pilots are simply prone to making fatal errors, and until we invent - and convert our fleet over to - a pilot-proof aircraft, it's not going to get better. And of course, a pilot-proof airplane would be no fun to fly, because the machine would have to fly itself.

... or (far more common) due to running out of gas.

What gets me is when pilot leaves airport where he's based at KXXX basically on fumes and tries to fly to nearby KYYY before fueling because KYYY is 1.00 a gallon cheaper. I mean I like to save money more than most folx, but couldn't ya at least put enough in to GET to the next airport.

Here is a great example of "fly the airplane";

http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/20 ... e-off.html

Reading this I guess I'm really lucky 2 airplane crashes (Grumman Ag cats) and about 3 dozen helicopter -"hostile aircraft modification" incidents, points out the need for a good shoulder harness seat belt.The Military (as well as Ag-Cat) belts are much wider to absorb the shock of de acceleration. Seats in helicopters are web bottom to absorb the impact from falling . Like the article that points out the importance of shoulder harness and good seat belts. #1 keep the speed at impact as slow as possible with CONTROL ! Sportsman Stol is Controllable to less than 40 knots on my 182. Forget about saving aircraft -save your self and pax's first. That's what I have insurance for. Sheet metal can be replaced -I can't .
Read and Heed Sparky Imesons >Mt. Flying Bible .

Blue Skies And Tailwinds.

I used to hang out w/ a bunch of Ag pilots in Georgia who swore by the AgCat's survivability. I think all of them had balled up at least one aircraft. Now this was back in the 70's so I don't know how the AgCat would stack up against the Thrush, Pawnee, etc.

Being surrounded by steel tubes sounds like a good idea.

TD

I'm not sure why anyone would think Cessna's aren't safe planes? I have a book I bought back in 92 when I first thought about buying a plane and learning to fly. It is "The Illustrated Buyer's Guide To Used Airplanes" by Bill Clark.

In the back it has the "NTSB accident rankings of small airplanes". In the "Fatal Accident by Manufacturer" list, Cessna was ranked the safest with 1.65 fatalities per 100,000 hrs. Bellanca's were the worst with 4.84 fatalities.

It lists the accidents by causes and in the "Accidents Caused By In-Flight Failure" list, the Cessna 150 was the safest followed by the 172. In fact Cessna took five of the six safest positions.
150- 0.02 per 100,000 hrs
172- 0.03 per 100,000 hrs
Grummand AA-1- 0.09 per 100,000 hrs
206- 0.11 per 100,000 hrs
182- 0.12 per 100,000 hrs
177- 0.16 per 100,000 hrs

Here is a few other planes on the list:
Piper J3- 0.23 per 100,000 hrs
Taylorcraft- 0.24 per 100,000 hrs
Aeronica 7- 0.27 per 100,000 hrs
Cessna 180- 0.31 per 100,000 hrs
Cessna 170- 0.36 per 100,000 hrs
Luscombe 8- 0.54 per 100,000 hrs
Aeronica 11- 0.59 per 100,000 hrs
Bellanca was worst again with 1.49 in flight failures per 100,000 hrs.

This book is one reason I bought and learned to fly in Cessnas. When you consider that Cessna once made up HALF of the General Aviation Fleet, those are pretty impressive statistics.

Although it has little to do with the crash-worthiness of the airframe itself, having sailplane experience and particularly "emergency" off-field landing practice will help stack the odds in your favor. There is no substitute for experience in these sort of emergencies... so having 20 or 100 off-field landings in gliders will certainly help your decision making when the chips are down in a powered airplane that just became un-powered.