Can anyone here tell me if it's possible to depart to the south (runway 17) at Meadow Creek (0S1)? If so, do you usually depart straight out or make a right/left turn?

Any advice appreciated,
Thanks

You can depart south if you'd like. You'll want a right turn into the river valley after departure.

Alright.

The reason I ask is because while over flying it last year someone radioed that they were departing, so I asked which runway, and was asked "Have you ever landed here before?"
"No, I haven't"
"To the north, you can't out climb the terrain to the south."

So I figured I better see how true that was.

Thanks for the info,
Sam

hi sam congrats on the license

pitman11 wrote:hi sam congrats on the license

Hey, thanks. I take it your from Helena and I know you?

ya travis Stinson 97032

Here's the view at Meadow Creek looking south.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3643/362 ... e865_b.jpg

Using Google Earth here's the numbers. The south end is 25 feet higher than the north end. One mile off the departure end the terrain is 58 feet higher than that, plus maybe another 50 feet or so for the height of the trees. You've got about 2900 feet of runway plus another 800 feet of overrun before you get to the trees. So, can you climb about 200 feet in 1 and 3/5 miles? Doesn't seem very difficult to me.

pitman11 wrote:ya travis Stinson 97032

Ahh ok. Nice a see a local on here.

Here's the view at Meadow Creek looking south.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3643/362 ... e865_b.jpg

Using Google Earth here's the numbers. The south end is 25 feet higher than the north end. One mile off the departure end the terrain is 58 feet higher than that, plus maybe another 50 feet or so for the height of the trees. You've got about 2900 feet of runway plus another 800 feet of overrun before you get to the trees. So, can you climb about 200 feet in 1 and 3/5 miles? Doesn't seem very difficult to me.

Ok, good. Thanks.

Here is a picture to the north from last summer.

It is down hill, ends in a cliff/drop off, and the terrain is pretty much lowering following the river. Other than a real nasty tail wind, I can't think of another reason not to take off to the north and use every advantage. But I've only been there once, and I've been wrong before. Nice place!

The best option in the mountains is always down hill towards lowering terrain. Depending on what you are flying you may make it out going south but if you enconture a down draft or high density altitude you have no good options. The trees at the south end are more like 150' and you almost always have desending air below the tree tops at the south end, may be even more so with a wind blowing from the south. Here are some rules of thumb from Imeson's Mountian Flying Bible. For take off distance add 10% for short grass, 20-30% for long grass, soft feild 25-75% add 10% for every 1000' density altitude and 10% for every degree of up slope, reduce distance 5% for every degree of down slope. So at 6000' DA in tall grass with 1% up slope = 90% more take off diatance. For a constant speed prop reduce sea level climb 6% for every 1000' of DA. Add that all up with even slightly rising terrain beyond the runway and you are looking for trouble.

Going north even if you have only 100' altitude at the end of the runway and hit a down draft so you can not gain any more altitude you'll make it out by following the river down the valley. It's the option with the least risk.

Montana Maule has nailed it....The only reason to risk a South departure at Meadow Creek would be a life or death situation, like your buddy has just chopped his leg in half while making kindling for the campfire and it's blowing 30 from the South. I've been in there in a Super Cub and a C180 and would not depart South for any less reason even though it can be mathematically justified....maybe in an empty 185 or 180 hp Super Cub. Look what happened to Sparky just pushing things a little bit with all his knowledge.

Rocky

Ok, thanks for all the good advice guys. I do have another question though:

For a constant speed prop reduce sea level climb 6% for every 1000' of DA. Add that all up with even slightly rising terrain beyond the runway and you are looking for trouble.

Why does a constant speed prop reduce climb performance? Wouldn't it increase climb performance?

-Sam

With a good performing airplane not loaded too heavy a south departure is fine. I've done it quite a few times. And landing from either direction is fine too. I would prefer to take off to the north and land to the south but will let the wind make that decision for me.

I should have stated it more clearly. The rule of thumb as written in the Mountain Flying Bible.

Density Altitude Rate of Climb- Variable-Pitch Propeller
Reduce sea level rate of climb 6% for each 1000' feet of density altitude up to 8500 DA and 8% for each 1000' above 8500' DA.

Density Alititude Rate of Climb - Fixed Pitch Propeller
Reduce sea level climb 7% for each 1000' DA up to 8500' and 8% for each 1000' above 8500' DA.

Ahhh, ok.

Thanks,
Sam