Some great input here guys!

I'm really not sure about stalling just above the water idea though; in theory it could work but if you miss-judge your height you could be in trouble. A good friend of mine was killed trying to stretch the glide after the engine quit in his Porter. He stalled 10-20ft off the ground and went in nose first; the g-forces on the impact killed both him and his passenger. As soon as you stall you have no more control over things. As a side note (and I know it's not a taildragger), the Cessna Caravan POH actually has a section on ditching and explicitly states to not even try to flare above the water to ensure you don't stall. They recommend to just fly the aircraft at best glide speed onto the water. There's a video somewhere of a Caravan ditching off Hawaii somewhere and it's textbook stuff.

However, I think unless you're very lucky, you're pretty much going to end up upside-down after ditching a taildragger on water. I've heard one theory of putting a wing tip into the water to induce a rotation and thus prevent the aircraft from flipping over. Not sure I'd be brave enough to try that one though.

Also, stay calm

I think this is key. Easy to say, but harder to do. But very important.

Wasn't there a Navajo ferry flight to Hawaii that ended up running out of fuel a couple of years ago? Not a taildragger but the aircraft settled into the water right side up and floated long enough for the pilot to get out on the wing to await rescue. Wait! he went in gear up! Ok, I get it. Never mind.

It didn't sink like a rock though...

Believe that was a Cessna 310

Dead stick over water, we'd prob all be wishing we were Moon Boy.

Even on floats or amphib, deadstick over glassy water on a big lake/open ocean, you're gonna have a rough time with depth perception.

Gump

GumpAir wrote:Even on floats or amphib, deadstick over glassy water on a big lake/open ocean, you're gonna have a rough time with depth perception.

Gump

Not if your altimeter is set properly!!

Bullshit. If it's even 20 feet off and you stall it that high off the water you'll stand a good chance of being killed from the impact. Plus, you'd better be eyes out of the cockpit that close to the water.

Gump

Exactly, but set properly when? A half hour and 50 miles away? Not accurate enough is my point to rely on for that crucial last few feet, in order to flare in time. I have no reason to fly a lot real low over calm ripple free water, but I do on featureless snow. Same deal, the seat upholstery gets wrinkled up real quick when I realize I don't know if I'm 50' or 5' high .

What I'm taking away from this thread is that a fat tired equipped plane will/can float! At least one with a belly tank! Close enough....maybe with one of those fattie tailwheels I can just get out and walk away, plane upright, as soon as I figure the walking on water part. I'd settle for swimming and coming the later for the inverted but still floating plane.

Stalling above the water is bad idea, you will suddenly ,ker-plunk in at 40+ mph and even as low as twenty feet it will feel like hitting concrete.
Many years ago one of my flight instructors big plan was to get low over the water, then roll a wing in and the plane would go around in circles until slowing down, even at my young age then, I thought he was watching too many cartoons. The bottom line is water is hard and should be transitioned into with the greatest of ease.
That dynamic stiffness of water can be used to it's advantage, and it has been demonstrated here on many videos. It makes sense, no matter how big your tires are, is to glide the wheels on to the water, well above above stall speed, as to maintain positive control of the aircraft.
It had been mentioned on a popular back country video that a speed of around 26mph was about average plane of a cub size to start to penetrate the surface and then followed by a very quick deceleration, that will most likely put the aircraft on its back. I would soon a start that inevitable process at 26-30+mph then at 40+ at some uncontrollable height above the surface. That is my plan if it comes down to it.
Of coarse the choppiness of the water will vary results and difficulty.

Here's a video of something that worked, but was very painful for those on board.

What I can't figure out is why no one has come up with internal inflatable bags for the wings and fuselage. Kind of like internal inflatable life vests or airbags on a car. Yes it might flip over but it would not sink and you could sit on top and go fishing and drink beer until help arrived. If the plane won't sink you have a lot more time and options.
KenW

During the '70s and '80s airplanes were being delivered all over the world.
Ferry flying was cheaper than containerization. Not so, now.
Southern Cross aviation had bases in California and Florida and flew many mismatched speed/power groups of aircraft.
A pilot I had met Toby was taking a C185 to Australia via Hawaii.
250 miles short of Hawaii he lost the fuel pump so while climbing to 12000msl for best radio range on the boost pump he searched with HF radio and found a freighter within range.
The boost pump then quit.
He set up a glide from 12k towards the ship and had over 15 mins of glide time.
By watching the water and swells he got a headwind direction and flew onto the ocean at a tad over stall speed.
The stop was sudden but cushioned enough as it is suspected the gear tore out the gearbox.
The door was appropriately ajar. Water came in and filled the cabin with airplane staying level.
Pressure equalized and pilot eased out of pilot door under the wing thinking 'damn, I forgot to remove my cowboy boots'
He surfaced behind the wing and by the time a few thoughts went through his head for orientation purposes, a hand grabbed him by the shirt collar and hauled him into a lifeboat.
He had contacted the freighter of course.
Aboard the freighter a sailor with camera shot stills of the complete landing which I have seen.
The front end floated for 3.5 minutes and 14 minutes later the tailcone disappeared between the waves.
This was the perfect situation of course.
A Bellanca Viking went in the North Atlantic a hundred miles west of Reykavik Iceland and a Lake Amphibion at another time.
The two gentlemen sat in the Bellanca 4 days floating on the sealed plywood wings until retreived by the derrick on a fishing boat.
The Lake was also found but in an attempt to tow it, the bow tore open and it was lost but not the crew.
There was so much ferry activity back then as I sat in the Loftleidir Hotel waiting for weather I could read the local pilots paper talking of who did not make it that week.
There were 43 full time ferry pilots back then and a wealth of info to help us on our way.

Hi,
I've often though of filling the wings with table tennis balls ! Avoiding area with control cables/rods etc.

I've heard Howard Hughes had that idea many moons ago but don't know if it's true !

Derek

I've done it.

Years ago the engine quit on my J-5, while towing a banner. It happened at 300', and downwind; so things happened very quickly. Irrelevant to you, but in this case I left the banner on, thinking it would help prevent the airplane from flipping. (this technique hammered out by all of us 500 hour wonders, during post-work "debriefs"). So I carried what speed I could to a fairly aggressive flair; it certainly was not glassy water.

As I recall it was not hard to judge the landing. Pretty dramatic deceleration when the mains hit, then it seemed I was immediately underwater; the airplane stayed upright. I remember thinking I should have taken a deep breath right before landing. Swam out and stood on the cabin roof. Tied the banner rope to a lifeguard's buoy before the airplane sank; we later towed it out of the ocean with an amphibious "Duck".

From your videos, it appears that you are on top of your game. As far as the actual landing goes, I wouldn't overthink it. Unlatch the doors; and consider the egress plan, this phase is likely to unfold quickly.

Cheers,
Aqua

Portnacroish wrote:Hi,
I've often though of filling the wings with table tennis balls ! Avoiding area with control cables/rods etc.

I've heard Howard Hughes had that idea many moons ago but don't know if it's true !

Derek

One of the early trans Atlantic attempts used that trick I believe, well before HH's time, he may have also used the (great) idea.

GumpAir wrote:Bullshit. If it's even 20 feet off and you stall it that high off the water you'll stand a good chance of being killed from the impact. Plus, you'd better be eyes out of the cockpit that close to the water.

Gump

I was just being a smartass!!

Ha Ha! I know, me too.

Gump

contactflying wrote:....... Like Gump, I would use power, if I had it, to get below stall speed while still flying in low ground effect. .....

I'm trying to picture a scenario when you would be ditching in the water while still having power.....other than being on fire, I can't come up with one. I think any ditching scenario needs to be restricted to dead sticking.

GumpAir wrote:Ha Ha! I know, me too.

Gump

Oh...... Alrighty then!!

I can think of several reasons to ditch on purpose.

Get yourself pinned down by a rapidly dropping ceiling in Southeast Alaska or the BC coast in one of the narrow channels, you have two choices... Water, or climb up IFR into the muck. Lose ground contact, and you're probably gonna die smacking the rocks. Unless I had a moving map GPS I really trusted, I'd take the water.

Or, if over open ocean and there was a fuel problem and you had to ditch short of land, probably a better outcome not deadsticking in, and comitting yourself while you still had engines working. Preferrably next to a boat.

Gump