O.K.,

I've wanted to ask this for some time....but we Maule owners are a proud bunch so I have hesitated. Do those of you who own the M-5 series or the shorter wing Maules experience a slow climb rate?

My M-5-210-C will climb initially at around 700 fpm when fairly heavy at near standard day conditions. Heavy she settles into about 500 fpm above 3 or 4,000 ft. About 6 or 7,000 ft. she only climbs around 300 fpm when grossed out. I climb at 25 square and 95 mph indicated. Any slower only degrades the climb rate. Any faster also reduces the climb rate.

I've always thought that the short wing is the culprit. Also I have 66 gallons of fuel so she is hauling a heavy load most of the time. Of course when light and cool it does a lot better. But my buddy's Citabria with the IO-360 LYC 180 h.p. doubles my climb rate.

Time to fess up guys. Is my airplane a dog? By the way....i've flown it over 700 hours. Flown it a gross wt. at high altitudes and surface temps as high as 106 degrees. Just avoided the rising terrian until altitude was gained.

Bob

At only 700fpm, I'm guessing it is a hot humid day.

Wish it was,

Like I said....."near standard day.".....close to gross wt.

Bob

Bob: Has the wing ever been off the airplane? The maintenance manuals detail rigging for dihedral and washout. Could it me out of rig? With 195hp carting around 2400 pounds it sure seems like it would try a little harder.

That's 210 hp and original gross weight 2300 lbs. Something is wrong with the engine, the prop, or the rigging, even with the gw increase at 2500 lbs it should do much better.

To be honest I havent been too impressed with the M4/5 210 for that reason, although I think with a Prop that pulls a little better I think it would help. Now in all fairness I don't have but about 10 hrs if I'm lucky behind the 210 so like has been said check your rigging, RPM etc as your Tach might be off a few RPM.

So Hottshot....


....are you saying that you have had similiar climb experience with the M-5? I understand that there may be other issues. However the airplane had a new Zero Time Continental overhaul when I bought it. It flys in trim with no record of having had the wing off. The prop was almost new when I bought it. Yet it has always had rather poor climb performance from my perspective. My only other experience was in ferrying an M-5 with the 180 HP LYC. Climb performance was very similiar.

As I said....I've flown it a lot, all over the nation and under most conditions. What I am really trying to determine is whether or not this is typical of the M-5-210-C. Must not be anyone else on this site that has experience in one.

Thanks anyway.

Bob

Z3;

I have had my 1977 M5 210C for 17 years and about 800 hours. I seldom fly at gross weight, typically around 2000 to 2100 lbs.

My typical climb rate at 2000 to 4000 msl feet is usually 1000 fpm or better. Can climb to 13,500 with full 63 gallons of fuel and camping gear and still indicating 400 feet rate at level off. Climb is full throttle and 2800 RPM, reducing to 2575 RPM after a couple minutes. Typically climb at 105 MPH indicated. I lean to 1350 degrees egt and maintain that throughout the climb.

My airplane has been completely dismantled and reassembled according to all factory specs and then tweaked for better performance with no mods at all. Cruise at 25 inches and 2575 RPM at 2000 feet just barely reaches 150 MPH indicated with a fresh wash and wax.

Gene

Thanks Gene,

Yeah....I can get that initial performance as well if I keep the power up. Book says 5 minutes at full throttle and 2,800 rpm.. I normally pull back to 25/25 at a couple hundred feet. I know the manual also says full throttle during the climb, which I don't do until the manifold pressure begins to drop. Think that I am being gentle with the engine. Maybe I am kidding myself and just not operating the engine as recommended. Also if I run it up to 2575 rpm the climb picks up about 100 fpm. So....climbing at 25/25 and given that I am often at gross wt....maybe the bird is doing just what it is supposed to do. My cruise down low and with comparable power settings is about 145 indicated. However I normally cruise at 24 square.

I love the airplane....just could use a bit more climb rate. But we always want to go faster and higher....right? Mine is a 1976 model which I have flown 700+ hours so you have given a great comparison.

Bob

Hello z3skybolt,
I have a M-4 Maule with a 210 HP IO-360. At a gross weight 2300 pounds, I can get a 1000 FPM climb at VX 70 MPH. With just me an half tanks I can maintain a 2000 FPM climb at VX. A VY climb of 90 mph will give me at least a 800 FPM climb at most weights and DA(s), and thats at 2500 RPM at 25' MP too. Normally at cruise I operate at 23 squared (RPM & MP) that equates to 10 gph. I fly a lot of differnt airplanes and consider the 210 hp Maule to be a real performer ie: thrust to weight. You must have a tired engine, or the trim-ball is in the ash-tray?

James

Maybe this would be for a different thread... but it has come up here.
Owners are mentioning the concept of: Tired Engine.
In a practical sense, other than a compression check and rpm readings... how does one know what they are really getting from the engine? I don't hear about dyno machinery like the automotive guys use. Would a club prop... in a test chamber to measure airflow be possible?
Just thinking outloud here....

Have the gauges checked, a c-180 I purchased years back and by the numbers, was slow and poor climbing out. When I had the MP and RPM gauges checked and replaced the MP gauge that plane flew faster and climbed faster than any 180 around. The previous owner had flown it for years since the engine was rebuilt and it was just a dog for him, but he said it was quieter than most.

Super-Maule wrote:Hello z3skybolt,
I have a M-4 Maule with a 210 HP IO-360. At a gross weight 2300 pounds, I can get a 1000 FPM climb at VX 70 MPH. With just me an half tanks I can maintain a 2000 FPM climb at VX. A VY climb of 90 mph will give me at least a 800 FPM climb at most weights and DA(s), and thats at 2500 RPM at 25' MP too. Normally at cruise I operate at 23 squared (RPM & MP) that equates to 10 gph. I fly a lot of differnt airplanes and consider the 210 hp Maule to be a real performer ie: thrust to weight. You must have a tired engine, or the trim-ball is in the ash-tray?

James

Thanks Jim,

Indeed you must have a Super Maule. I had a 260 HP Skybolt that weighed 1,200 lbs. It would not match your climb rate except during the first three or four thousand feet, nor would my 180HP Pitts S1 which weighed 760 lbs empty. Sure off the ground the Pitts and Skybolt would do around 2,500 fpm but above 7 or 8 thousand they would settle down to about 1,200 fpm at 120 mph.

I played with my Maule today. Light and 82 degrees temp. airport altitude of 485 msl. Climbed at 70 mph, as you indicated, until 800 ft. agl at over 1,000 fpm. But one cannot maintain such an low speed in my airplane for very long...it will stop climbing. Cruise climb at 105 mph and it settled back to around 500 fpm. above 4000 ft. The engine has strong compression. The airframe seems a bit out of rig however as the ball always wants to stay slightly out to the right until in cruise...then it settles into the middle. If I use enough right rudder trim or a heavy foot to keep the ball centered during climb then it takes a bit of left aileron to keep it level. Maybe that is part of my performance problem. Always been that way since I bought it ...nine years and 700 hours ago. I too fly and have flown dozens of different light airplanes....still think my Maule is not up to par in climb.

Just flew it 13 hours from Blanding Utah to Phoenix to Washington, Mo. Cruised as high as 11,500 ft. Took a long time to get there....but it made it. Averaged 10.5 gph at full throttle(about 20 inches) 2450 rpm. and 1320 egt. 66 gallons of gas. Me at 180 lbs, the wife at 110 lbs and enough camping gear to gross it out. Air temps from 80 degrees at PHX to a low of 29 degrees en route over New Mexico.

Has nothing to do with climb performance....but landed at Taylor, AZ.... near gross, density altitude of 8,900 ft. ...winds 210 degrees at 28 gusting to 40. right down the runway. Flew it on with power and 80 mph indicated. Smooth as silk touch down(actually just flew it on with a ground speed of about 45 mph). Take off from there in the same conditions at gross weight with a 400 fpm rate of climb.

Landed at Alexander, New Mexico.....winds nearly the same, slight cross wind very gusty. Lousy landing, headed for the toolies for a moment. Took a bunch of hard left brake to straighten it out. Could hardly taxi....90 degrees to the 30 mph winds. Take off there the climb was 500 fpm at gross wt. and 74 degrees temp. Lots of gust on take off. Stayed in ground effect until the stall light stopped flickering.

Liberal, KS. Winds 140 at 25 gusting to 35. Landed on runway 17 with the 30 degree crosswind. Spent the night as we had waited out terrible weather in Arizona for 3 hours.

Got home on Friday to an easy 20 kt. wind with a 30 degree crosswind. 8 hours of planned flight turned into 10 as we did a bunch of deviating around and under weather from that nasty cold front that blew through AZ, UT and NM Thursday.

By the way...when I got home I found that the tail wheel was no longer steering....just castering. Looks like a rebuild of the Scott tailwheel. Might have accounted for the wild gyrations after touch down at Alexander, NM. The Maule is a fantastic airplane. My wife is one brave lady with too much confidence in her husband.

Thanks to all for your thoughts. I am going to look into the rigging.

Bob