Only use MMO in experimental Lycomings and Continentals. Putting it in a certified engine will result in an immediate lightning strike to the user.

gbflyer wrote:Only use MMO in experimental Lycomings and Continentals. Putting it in a certified engine will result in an immediate lightning strike to the user.

And all your hair will fall out too. But, amazing how that red solvent will clean valves that won't stick in the guides and your rings will be nice and free if you run it in the fuel. Just pure snake oil that you will find used by many AG round engine guys. Wonder why farmers with old machinery that keeps on running year after year have that wintergreen smell when you walk by them? Dem old farmers don't know nuthin eh?

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RockHopper wrote:

gbflyer wrote:Only use MMO in experimental Lycomings and Continentals. Putting it in a certified engine will result in an immediate lightning strike to the user.

And all your hair will fall out too. But, amazing how that red solvent will clean valves that won't stick in the guides and your rings will be nice and free if you run it in the fuel. Just pure snake oil that you will find used by many AG round engine guys. Wonder why farmers with old machinery that keeps on running year after year have that wintergreen smell when you walk by them? Dem old farmers don't know nuthin eh?

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8GCBC wrote:

CamTom12 wrote:I use MMO in my fuel and get regular oil samples analyzed. Since starting the MMO I’ve noticed smoother engine operation and my oil samples are coming back good. I️ consider it preventative maintenance against 100LL. I’m also experimental.

Run MoGas! If you can get it down there. I tried MoGas in Alaska (GBflyer turned me on to it) loved it! No lead is good, even Lycoming approves it on my serial number! But, it's hard to get in Oregon cosidering how little fuel I use. Opinion.

I️ agree completely, I’d run 100% mogas if it were more available. I’m hoping the Swift products get more widespread soon.

I️ have a trailer I️ haul E0 to the airport with, but sometimes my flying is sporadic due to work and mogas has a short shelf life. Plus I️ can generally find 100LL in a 30 minute flight that’s within 30 cents per gallon what 93 octane E0 costs me.

So for now I’ve decided to stick to 100LL and MMO out of convenience.

I see a LOT of people running MMO in certified aircraft. They mix it in right there at the pump in plain sight of everyone...I've never seen anyone bat an eye at the practice.

I don't have enough knowledge to say whether it's a good idea or not, but it's sure common where I live.

As for dead pax and a FAA forensic engine investigation...ya, could happen. But if I believed I was going to kill a pax in a airplane crash I'd quit flying right this minute. Operating with that potential eventuality in mind doesn't make a bit of sense to me.

Some time ago, I queried Lycoming’s Chief Instructor about using MMO in Lyc engines. Specifically, I asked him if using the stuff would void their warrantee.....he said nope. I then asked him whether he thought it was a good idea. He basically said that if it makes you happy, use it. But, officially, it’s not approved.

I ran P &W R-985s for seven or with years, and our Chief of Maintenace was an old timer, who explained to me when I was getting checked out that “That airplane is assigned to you, but that engine still belongs to me, and you WILL run it the way I tell you to run it.” A few months later an air taxi outfit running a Goose told me they always run MMO in their fuel and oil. I asked Jerry that question, and my ear that was to the phone still has blisters..... The summary was: “Don’t put that stuff in my engine”. And, I never did.

That engine went to tbo and was clean as a whistle inside when they tore it down.....and it ran straight mineral oil it’s whole life.

Go figure.

MTV

Hammer wrote:
As for dead pax and a FAA forensic engine investigation...ya, could happen. But if I believed I was going to kill a pax in a airplane crash I'd quit flying right this minute. Operating with that potential eventuality in mind doesn't make a bit of sense to me.

In this day and age, they would probably sue you if they only got bumps and bruises. Shoot, if you glided to an airport and landed safely, they would probably sue you for emotional trauma.

We used MMO in the fuel on the big 1820 radials for years . That stuff smells good !!

I would not put it in the oil on a long cross country with a new to me plane. Just a nice long run with fresh oil often cleans up the rings anyway. Fly often and change oil regularly should do fine.
DENNY

I enjoy hearing different perspectives on MMO, oil A vs oil B and the like. But everyone’s personal experience with MMO or StopLeak or product X is really just anecdotal…not of any statistical value. It might be doing what they think it’s doing, and it might not. It's interesting to hear different perspectives regardless, but I'd caution anyone against using anecdotal evidence as the basis for their decisions.

If you timed out an engine in three years you could probably run it on recycled fryer grease and it’d be spotless at teardown. But run-out the same engine over the course of two decades and it's almost guaranteed to have corrosion and buildup regardless of what mixture of gas, oil and additives ran through it.

Camgard is pretty much universally well respected, but if the creators hadn’t bothered to get it FAA certified and just sold it for use in cars and tractors and lawnmowers and motorcycles and the like, it’d be sitting there on the shelves of Napa and Sprawlmart, completely illegal to use in a certified engine, and working just as well for the folks who did it anyway.

Given the fantastically small number of internal combustion engines that hang on airplanes and the ridiculously painful process of getting something certified, it’s a bit of a miracle CamGuard (or anyone else) even bothers. I'm glad they did...that FAA certification helps insure it's not just snake oil with a bunch of fancy claims. But it'd work just as well without it.

The hand-full of books I’ve read on engine operation all seem to agree that the worst thing you can do to an engine is start it, and the second worst thing you can do is shut it down. Most agree that the majority of wear and damage to an engine happens at start-up, and the colder the engine the more the damage.

From that perspective, a multi-weight oil that flows more freely when cold is going to be a better engine protectant than any straight-weight oil, even if the straight weight oil does a better job once at operating temperature…something a lot of people claim, but which is, again, purely anecdotal.

Of course there are a thousand and one variables, many having to do with how and where said engine is operated. Most of our engines self destruct while sitting, not running…totally different that a “working” engine that rarely sits idle.

And before the flamethrowers get sparked up, I don’t have a valid opinion on straight vs multi oil, whether MMO should be used, or if CamGuard is worth the money. I run what I think is best in my engine and recon everyone else is welcome to do the same.

Hammer wrote:
From that perspective, a multi-weight oil that flows more freely when cold is going to be a better engine protectant than any straight-weight oil, even if the straight weight oil does a better job once at operating temperature…something a lot of people claim, but which is, again, purely anecdotal.

Of course there are a thousand and one variables, many having to do with how and where said engine is operated. Most of our engines self destruct while sitting, not running…totally different that a “working” engine that rarely sits idle.

And before the flamethrowers get sparked up, I don’t have a valid opinion on straight vs multi oil, whether MMO should be used, or if CamGuard is worth the money. I run what I think is best in my engine and recon everyone else is welcome to do the same.

The oil argument is an interesting one. Currently I favor straight weight. From what I understand, the multi-weight oil is a light weight oil with viscosity improving polymers. The problem is that those polymers may not lubricate like actual oil. Plus once "uncoiled", the polymers don't handle shear as well.

But like you say engine start up is where the wear is. I guess to help there, I got a Tanis heater.

Thats such what little I have learned so far. I am not sure it really matters that much, though. Studies don't show much difference regarding wear between the two oils. They show good things about camguard though.

I think it really comes down to flying often. One of the big engine makers said that after 7 days of disuse, the corrosion becomes an issue. That's why I try to fly at least one hour per week. DON'T just idle it for 15 min, and REALLY DON'T just turn the prop over. Get that oil hot and sticky, then sling it all over the engine.

I would run straight weight oil if I lived in warmer climate, but when it gets colt I switch to the 20w/50 stuff like everybody else.

I also have heard about the MMO from my mechanic, but once I figured out what it's made out of, I wasn't going to put any in my engine.

I've heard that one of the most respected engine builders around here swears by STP oil treatment. I won't post is name, but everybody knows this guy.

Anyway, I agree with others. Fly often is the best solution for you and your airplane.

schu

ShadowAviator wrote:DON'T just idle it for 15 min, and REALLY DON'T just turn the prop over. Get that oil hot and sticky, then sling it all over the engine.

I️ agree with you 100% (even though I️ don’t always get to do this myself!) but I️ have to say - hot and sticky aren’t really synonymous with oil