Cub180 wrote:Problems I have seen on early one ic smoking rivets in gear dox area. On wing main spar any where there are flush rivets . Seen the main carry through front spar with sheared rivets. Who checks there with head liner in place .new models have high shear rivets .top of wing get cracks then they put diamond patches on . The newer ones have thicker shins .my 77k weighing in at 1805 in scales . 520 3 blade Hartzell sea planes mount heavier exhaust. Cog would be to far forward if not for 14 in tail wheel 1 1/8 stinger 185 tail rudder centering kit . My plane came for factory with a 185 horizontal stab . I reskinned it in 2010 with 025 metal I made shins by vacuum bagging also heavier. My plane has about 5500 hrs I worked it hard for 20 years and it is tight. Anyone who rides in it makes that comment. Replace right hand outer gear casting my self a long time ago . Took me 16 hrs and a lot of cuts on my arms all rivets like original.i do not like cherry max like I see on a lot of planes

How much thicker skins? What year did that happen? If there are smoking rivets in the gear box area, is there different construction there than later models? Main spar with flush rivets, what is the difference in construction from the early "problem" models to the later ones?

Loose rivets because flush in stead of round head carry through spar had regular hard rivets h models had high sear not sure when thicker skins.

The later models have extra window, bigger vertical stabilizer, adjustable seats, baggage door, thicker gear legs, heavy duty axles, 28 vt electrical system leading edge cuff bigger panel, heavier rudder pedals,with a lot more options. All of that small stuff adds up to more weight, it also expands the capability of the airplane https://www.skywagons.com/cessna-skywagon-year-changes go here for a year by year changes.
DENNY

We have the model distinctions right here on the site: https://backcountrypilot.org/knowledge- ... stinctions

I'm having a hard time believing this:

1963 Model 180F ...
First year for 10 degree flaps.

Zzz wrote:We have the model distinctions right here on the site: https://backcountrypilot.org/knowledge- ... stinctions

I'm having a hard time believing this:

1963 Model 180F ...
First year for 10 degree flaps.

My 59 definitely had 10, 20, 30 and 40 degree flap notches and if i recall they were all covered in the POH so not a mod. Actually I wasn't aware there were any 180s that didn't have the 10 degree notch.

Zzz wrote:.....I'm having a hard time believing this:

1963 Model 180F ...
First year for 10 degree flaps.

My 53 180 has a 10 degree notch, but that isn't to say that it came that way from the factory.
OTOH the 56 owner's manual I have here at home references "wing flaps 20 degrees (second notch)"
in the operating checklist.

I've never met a 180 with no notch for 10 degree flaps. That said, my 52 170B didn't have a 10 degree flap notch.....till we made one.

About the only wisdom I had going in to this was an acquaintance who had built a super 170 and sold it to buy a 185. Didn't fly the 185 much - too heavy, burned too much gas, and a vast majority of his flying was solo. Ended up selling the 185 and buying the 170 back wiht a smile on his face.
So, I figure a later 185 is not as good for a kick around airplane which is a lot of what I like to do.

That said, our 54 180 was based at our airport and we were able to talk the previous owner into selling to us before he passed away. Got a good deal on it, likely would have been pricier on the open market. It's a great balance of what we like to do. Quite a bit heavier than the cub but throttled back not much more fuel burn and it gets up and goes with 2 people and all the gear you could realistically want. Ok, maybe not Beaver gear but good enough for our needs.

What I really want is a turbine converted AN2.
"If you can't be with the one you love, honey - love the one you're with"

I've never met a 180 with no notch for 10 degree flaps. That said, my 52 170B didn't have a 10 degree flap notch.....till we made one.

My 54 does not have 10 degrees and and my IA mechanic friend had to file a 10 degree notch in his 55. I was flying with an instructor friend in his 185 on floats and he said I didn't know what I was talking about. I decided he doesn't know everything.

Pretty sure they didn’t add a 10 degree notch to the flaps until the early 60s, 1962 or 63?

Zzz wrote:Curious how many of you with any model Skywagon acquired 7+ years ago could afford to buy it today.

I bought my 185 fifteen years ago. I bet it isn’t worth much more today than the inflation adjusted price from 2011. So, yes, I suppose I could afford it today and would buy it again.

mpm wrote:Pretty sure they didn’t add a 10 degree notch to the flaps until the early 60s, 1962 or 63?

I just flew in a ‘54 180 last week. Only three notches of flaps. Missing the first 10 degrees.

I think the early-vs-late 180 debate is kinda like ford vs chevvy, or cessna vs maule.
We all have our reasons for preferring one over the other,
but the bottom line is that they're all awesome, very capable airplanes.
You really can't go wrong buying either one.

There are some people I know of that have a 185 because its "better", they would have a 186 if there was one.

StillLearning wrote:There are some people I know of that have a 185 because its "better", they would have a 186 if there was one.

Too true. I suppose all of us are susceptible to more/better at points, some more than others.
Last week I got a couple compliments on how short I landed the 180 at Sullivan. Always nice to hear, but truth be told I could likely land it even shorter if I skipped some burritos. Maybe a 179 would be an "upgrade" in some circumstances. Or maybe less burritos, but let's not be ridiculous.

StillLearning wrote:It was posted that someone has seen too many problems with the very early ones. So I ask, specifically what?

It has also been mentioned twice that its possible that the later models are "beefier" or "heavier duty", until this thread I had never heard that theory. Are the fuselage skins thicker? Are there more ribs? are they thicker ribs? Are the struts or their attach points bigger? Are the spars thicker? more plys? Does anyone have data that would suggest a 53 fuselage is any different structurally than up though an H model?

The single biggest 'problem' with a lighter early model 180 is the same 'problem' a 95 hp Super cub or a PA-18-105 usually has....
An owner trying to make a late model plane out of it. Pretty soon it's a pig, with less fuel capacity and less GW than a good late model plane.
A good early model 180 with modern goodies should barely nip at the 1700# mark, a stripped bush beater should be 1600 or less.

And yes 'beefier' they got with age. Every skin facing up on the wing has a different part number than late model planes. That is not coincidental, they are thinner. And yes they will crack if you treat it like a later plane. Your own gear legs are astonishingly heavier than what came on it, I respect Glidergeek greatly, but if I had 185 legs on a '50's 180 and someone wanted to swap me an original set, I'd be all over it. All that extra baggage way up front fighting the sweet spot in my CG . More so if they were a set off an original '53, which were set back ~3".

Here's one not even most good Cessna mechanics don't catch. Roll your ailerons out of the way so you can see the flap or aileron ribs. Now do it on a late model plane.... All those lightening holes probably don't make a pound of difference, but it alll adds up.

Lots of love out there for late model 180's. Personally, if I worked one, I'd take an early 185 over a late 180 every time. As it is, I don't, I'm a bush beating wannabe, who loves a 4 place plane I can stick into cub spots, and that commands keeping it as light as possible while not completely ditching a few creature comforts.

My '53 and a random internet grab, looks at the flaps;



Take care, Rob

If your mission is flying around 1 or 2 up with a bit of camping gear then an early 180 all day long. Nice and light and beautiful to fly. If you want to haul stuff (especially if you want to stay legal) then it’s a 185. We have a 180J which we have spent 40 years trying to turn into a 185 with all the upgrades. Its still not a 185.

Good, insightful input from Rob, Jamie, & Will.
Thanks for posting.