robw56 wrote:

Hoeschen wrote:I've been looking at that but adding 3' (39' total after the mod) really makes for a tight fit in many hangars!

That's true, I've measured my hangar and I think I would have a couple inches to spare on each side!

Had a buddy do this. It wasn't wing X, just different tips. Had a couple inches per side. Said he knocked off a lot of nav lights. I can't figure out why he built his hangar so tight, but man its gotta be annoying to knock lights off all the time!

bigrenna wrote:....TCDS 5A6. ....The certificated empty weight and corresponding C.G. location must include unusable fuel of 30 lb. at (+46) on Models 180, 180E, 180F, 180G, 180H, 180J, and 180K through S/N 18053000,....

An interesting side note...yes, the TCDS says to include 30# unusable fuel at 46". However, the original factory W&B sheet for my airplane, dated Mar 4 1953, adds in 30# unusable fuel at 48"-- the same arm as used for usable fuel.

The original W&B is shown with no fuel or oil as 1490# @ 36.0" CG.
Then 30# unusable fuel added at 48", putting it up to 1520 # @ 36.2 CG.
Then where they show it loaded up to gross, they add 12 qts oil (22#) at -0.3", which would put it at
1542# @ 35.7" CG.
(Using that station for the oil is another err, as the owners manual or something calls out the oil station as -15". Using that station, the CG would be 35.5"CG)

In any event, today, 63 years later, with oil & unusable fuel gas it comes in at 1693# @ 34.73" CG-- about 150# heavier and with the CG 3/4" or 1" farther forward than when it came out of the factory door.

By comparison, a buddy of mine's pretty much stock 54 model started out at almost exactly the same factory W&B figures, but today comes in at 1569# @ 35.44"-- about 125 pounds lighter than mine and with the CG almost 3/4" farther aft. But I believe his has never been weighed since it left the factory, all the W&B revisions were calculated.

Might be an interesting side note, but to be clear, the only data to use is the TCDS.

Yup, the TCDS trumps all.

Another interesting side note-- some 180's are spelled out by s/n to include 30# usuable fuel in the official "empty" W&B, some 60#, and some only 24#. Also, some include 22# of oil and some zero oil. From the TCDS, data pertinent to all models:

"NOTE 1. Current weight and balance report together with list of equipment included in certificated empty weight and loading instructions when necessary must be provided for each aircraft at the time of original certification.
The certificated empty weight and corresponding C.G. location must include unusable fuel of 30 lb. at (+46) on Models 180, 180E, 180F, 180G, 180H, 180J, and 180K through S/N 18053000, and 60 lbs. at (+48) on Models 180A, 180B, 180C and 180D, and undrainable oil of 0.0 lbs. at -15.0 through S/N 1805260; full oil of 22.0 lbs. at -15.0 S/N 18052621 and on.
The certificated empty weight and corresponding center of gravity locations must include unusable fuel of 24 lb. at +48 (S/N 18052490, 18053001 and on).
Specific floatplane gross weights are those shown with float models under C.G. range."

hotrod180 wrote:... which would put it at
1542# @ 35.7" CG.
(Using that station for the oil is another err, as the owners manual or something calls out the oil station as -15". Using that station, the CG would be 35.5"CG)

In any event, today, 63 years later, with oil & unusable fuel gas it comes in at 1693# @ 34.73" CG-- about 150# heavier and with the CG 3/4" or 1" farther forward than when it came out of the factory door.

By comparison, a buddy of mine's pretty much stock 54 model started out at almost exactly the same factory W&B figures, but today comes in at 1569# @ 35.44"-- about 125 pounds lighter than mine and with the CG almost 3/4" farther aft. But I believe his has never been weighed since it left the factory, all the W&B revisions were calculated.

Similar experiences...I'd almost forgot that number until you wrote it.....1542 lbs. the plane is long gone so I don't have the logs in front of me but I could swear my '55 model was EXACTLY that number originally.

I sold that plane and moved on to later model, loaded, IFR 180 and now a 185. With the actual, weighed number that the early and mid year 180's have, many people are shocked to see a 2000 lb 180. I'm told it's common. I plan on weighing my stock, IFR, float kit equipped, loaded to the gills with factory options 185 this year on 8.50s. I'll be shocked if it's less than 1950 empty.

Bill

I'm actually pretty surprised to see sub-1600# early 180's, and sub-1300# 170's.
50 years of dirt, paint jobs, radios, heavy gear, fat tires, HD brakes, etc etc.
I wish mine still weighed that 1542#-- just imagining the increased performance makes me grin.