Ok, I wanna play too. Battson and I were discussing via back-channel the ideal things one should know going into the engine ordering process from a custom builder. For the 540, I could only think of a few things, perhaps others can chime in. This is for use with an Experimental category airworthiness certificate. This is for my 4-place Bearhawk, soon.

What should be on my checklist when discussing with the builder for options/pricing? Things I can think of with my current knowledge:

- After much debate I've decided to go with the O-540-B4[?] or similar. That's 7.20:1 with a carb. I want to be able to burn clear 92 pump gas that my friend Oregonmaule will supply to me for free.

- The lightest 540's are parallel valve

- Narrow or wide deck? Does it matter? Update: I will specify wide deck.

- Roller cam and tappets. Is this even possible without having a newer case? Whatever I buy will likely be based on an older core.

- Remote mounted oil filter for accessibility

- Accessory case with 2 separate magneto mounts, no dual-magneto business.

- Engine mount style? Dynafocal type 1 or 2? Any advantage? This is often something that is just baggage with the case's particular brackets, and they can be changed but it's extra $$.

- Carburetors. What to do? Find a good MS and have it rebuilt? Is there an aftermarket option? Update: Going injected.

- I'll likely be going with some electronic ignition like the P-mag. Any considerations for that in the build process other than just not bolting some Bendix or Slicks on? Update: Likely going with integrated EFII. ECU controls ignition modules/coils.

- Probably just going ECI pistons/cylinders/pins/guides

- What things should I not specify and just consider my own problem? Prop governor, ignition, oil filter, plug wires, etc.

- Being the artsy guy I am, I need it to look cool. Is it okay to specify what paint i want on the case and that I need killer-looking valve covers? For this kind of expenditure, it better be.

- NEW: Alternator mount on the 540. I just learned of this, that the alternator can be mounted in different locations on the case. What's best?

Remember this is about my discussion with an engine builder for the order, not necessarily a carb vs injected vs high compression debate.

Did you check out the Titan R 540? Light, powerful and looks like the way to go to me.

http://www.titanengine.com/rseries/

sounds good Z...that bearhawk is a stout bird and u will like the 0-540...
i have the same in my 182, but like the RG it is turbonormalized...which i have had super luck with...bet u could find one...maybe western skyways for a rebuilt or etc...this was a common setup on the earlier 182T's...my fuel burn at 60% power is down around 12 gph....just a thought...

ECI cylinders are the way to go, we really noticed a differance over the old ones. If you can get also get the leading edge exhaust.

Be aware if you pay for really nice paint up front - the process of fitting the baffling, cutting, and refitting [as you make the baffles yourself or modify a Vans set] is a great way to lose square inches of paint from the cylinders and crankcase.

http://www.sdsefi.com/

Just like the Ipad and the steam gauge for me!!
12 OZ. zero gravity battery will get you farther than you have gas!!
Good luck with what ever you use!

No experience but I've heard lots of good stuff about Barrett Precision. Might be a good resource. Also the guys in Kamloops BC. I would shop/question them all very heavily.

Looks like you got most of it figured out but...
Why the remote oil filter? The 540 usually has a filter adapter on the accessory case. The remote filter just adds two extra oil lines and four extra potentially leaky fittings ohh my and the WEIGHT!!!
Governor- PCU5000 is a great one and they offer a cheaper one for u experimental aviators.

1. Warranty- Is there one and what does it cover?
2. Ignition harness color if you decide on regular mags...
3. Heavy case or light case? I know on Navajos there is an older light case that is prone to cracks...
4. WIll it be test run allready? Some small builders do not test run engines at all....Not necessarily a bad thing but can be

Cant wait to see what ya end up with.

Quickdraw1 wrote:ECI cylinders are the way to go, we really noticed a differance over the old ones. If you can get also get the leading edge exhaust.

That Leading edge does look nice, but they seem to be geared toward certified/STC application; not that that is not good, but I didn't see any Lycoming 6-cylinders on there. I think many of the Bearhawk guys have gone with Vetterman. Bears more research.

PAMR MX wrote:Why the remote oil filter? The 540 usually has a filter adapter on the accessory case. The remote filter just adds two extra oil lines and four extra potentially leaky fittings ohh my and the WEIGHT!!! .

Good question. I had assumed it would be required due to space constraints. I need to study some RV-10 builds as I'll be using the Vans oil cooler. Battery will likely be under the seat. Maybe the spin-on will be a good solution, I dunno.

PAMR MX wrote:............
4. WIll it be test run allready? Some small builders do not test run engines at all....Not necessarily a bad thing but can be. .............

This is something that most people don't think much about, but I think a proper run-in on a test stand is definitely a big plus. The first few minutes can make or break an engine top end. Lots of engine get fired up on the airplane, right before the first flight, but I've heard of people that (on purpose or not) spent so much time idling, running up, or waiting to take off that the cylinders glazed and the rings never seated. You still have to break the engine in, but running it in on a test stand eliminates or at least greatly reduces the chance of that glazing.

Just to offer an alternate view - our engine came straight from R&B Aircraft, having never turned over once. We followed the instructions provided from ECi, which were pretty easy, and it worked great. Now we don't have to change oil between 50hr checks. The oil burn rate is perfect, not too fast or too slow.

We made a point of not swinging the prop before the first start too, didn't want to scrub off the preservative oil-film inside the cylinders.

When it came time for the engine's first ever run, I was kinda happy I got the responsibility of doing it myself. R&B Aircraft provided with a full-blown ECi check-list of do's and dont's, we followed it to the letter by planning it into our test flight programme, and it's worked out great.

Basically, we pre-filled the oil filter / cooler, I think maybe we pre-oiled the cylinders too, and preheated the sump oil in a pot using a propane burner, and put it straight back into the engine piping-hot. We cranked it over with the starter [mixture out] for a few seconds, until we saw oil pressure, then primed the fuel lines and did the start. It fired up so quick I could hardly believe it, we ran it for less than 60 seconds at 1000 RPM or so, With the cowling off, overheating is a major concern, so it was just long enough to do the necessary checks, tests, have a helper inspect for leaks, and the PIC take readings.

I can't recall exactly the procedure after the first run, but there was basically no further ground running, apart from a full power run-up, again hot oil and less than 5 minutes total warm-up and run time.

After that is was into the first flight, with less than 7 minutes on the tacho. Then the engine was run at full power T/O and above 75% for the first few hours, which it seemed to love. I understand serious / irreversible glazing would typically more than an hour's ground running to occur.

I don't disagree there are many advantages to a test-bed run-in. But there are other, perfectly viable, ways to do it with the engine already installed. Either way you still have to do the break-in on the plane.

The reason I've posted this is mainly because I don't know what I don't know. I assume an engine builder would fill in the gaps between what I've specified and what I haven't, and if it's a fixed price they would take the cheap route on some items to maximize profit.

I'm okay with cheap on certain things, others no so much.

Battson wrote:We cranked it over with the starter [mixture out] for a few seconds, until we saw oil pressure

This got me curious what people think of doing this after an oil change... i.e. cranking with mags off and mixture out to fill the new oil filter with oil and build some oil pressure prior to actually running the engine? Beneficial or just more wear and tear on the starter?

scottf wrote:

Battson wrote:We cranked it over with the starter [mixture out] for a few seconds, until we saw oil pressure

This got me curious what people think of doing this after an oil change... i.e. cranking with mags off and mixture out to fill the new oil filter with oil and build some oil pressure prior to actually running the engine? Beneficial or just more wear and tear on the starter?

Just as easy to pre-fill the filter with new oil I'd have said. Although maybe not, if you don't have a remote mounted filter.

With a new engine everything not pre-oiled is totally dry, so it's a different situation to an oil change where the engine internals are already coated in residual oil.

Concious I don't want to create thread drift.

Z,

This thread will get you salivating..... http://www.supercub.org/forum/showthrea ... lve+covers

Very cool old style valve covers.

MTV

Battson wrote:

scottf wrote:

Battson wrote:We cranked it over with the starter [mixture out] for a few seconds, until we saw oil pressure

This got me curious what people think of doing this after an oil change... i.e. cranking with mags off and mixture out to fill the new oil filter with oil and build some oil pressure prior to actually running the engine? Beneficial or just more wear and tear on the starter?

Just as easy to pre-fill the filter with new oil I'd have said. Although maybe not, if you don't have a remote mounted filter.

With a new engine everything not pre-oiled is totally dry, so it's a different situation to an oil change where the engine internals are already coated in residual oil.

Concious I don't want to create thread drift.

Agreed... if your filter is upright. Many are upside down and impossible to pre-fill.

We did what is called P.I.G. on fresh overhauls. The system used a class 8 truck compressed air storage tank. Tank on end, bottom 3/8" NPT fitting, ball valve, plumbed with a long airequip hose connected to the engine oil galley though either a 1/8" NPT or bigger depending on the engine. The top end with a 1" NPT pipe plug... Then a brass air fitting from an old tire inner tube brazed near the top of the tank. Partially fill the tank with engine oil, pressurize the tank, check the pressure with a tire pressure gauge..say 80 psi, open the valve.....keep an eye in the engine oil level dip stick. Few quarts from full...shut the valve. Disconnect the hose from the tank. Top off the crank case with oil. Install a manual oil pressure gauge. Start the engine.
Mark M.

Zzz wrote:...- I'll likely be going with some electronic ignition like the P-mag. Any considerations for that in the build process other than just not bolting some Bendix or Slicks on?

- Probably just going ECI pistons/cylinders/pins/guides...

14mm (auto) or 18mm (aero) spark plug holes. I read someone (I think ECI) stating the heads are more robust (less likely to crack) around the 14mm holes due to the additional structure.

What do you guys know about the different alternator mount locations on a 540 case? Case mount vs boss mount. It sounds as if the boss mount (threaded studs) is the newer style.