Hi guys,
I took a 9 year break from flying and recently have gotten back into it and just purchasing another 182. 8 years ago, if you got to an airport with a town, you'd call a cab and wait for an hour for a ride or steal a crew car if available. But now there are so many different options for transportation. Uber, for one, is super nice to have in populated places. You can order a ride from the air and its there by the time you tie down. But is far out places, what is your favorite mode of transport? A typical folding bike? If so, which one? e-bike? The electric One Wheel looks like it could be amazing for getting around certain areas. Is there some other vehicle that Im missing that will teleport you around land and easily fit in the back of a 182? Thanks for any insight.

Currently it’s nothing as my bird is playing hangar queen. I’m thinking about a one wheel pint (small version) for work in the twotter where we end up with lots of walking at tanker bases and it would also fit in the pa-12 or strap to the strut. Anybody have concerns about batteries with these types of things?

Yeah I just saw that on the site. Looks pretty cool. I think a fat tire, folding, e bike would be just about the best if you have the room for it but I dont know if they even make those yet.

I’ve looked into those big wheel electric scooters at one point.

https://www.radpowerbikes.com/products/ ... tent=55097


Just found this. Fat tires, foldable, and goes 45 miles per charge. Crazy.

Pipeliners mostly use airports with courtesy cars, but after six hours in a 172 a bike is nice for a change. I kept bikes at favorite airports ($35 at Walmart in winter) and on loops without, I carried a regular bike in the back of the 172. Just took the back seats and right front seat out,.

My very first ebike was a 20" fat folder, similar if not the same as the Rad, and I quickly outgrew it. Hub drive, (meaning ONE speed, the rear hub mounted motor does not take mechanical advantage of the front chain ring, only a mid drive motor does that, a huge difference in speed, torque, range, capability etc.) very limited in torque and range (and forget the stated range, that's fantasy land) and not very light or compact ( I never did figure out how to stick it in my Rans S-7S) when folded either. A e converted Montague will totally kick ass on it: ride better, have better components, be more efficient, more capable, and not make you look like a circus clown when riding it. Riding "fat" UNLESS you are planning on super rough and rocky trails, is a waste of rubber and e power, those fat tires are heavy and draggy as hell.

E bikes are like anything else, you get what you pay for.

I just got on the Rad Power site, been a while, and I see they are now at least stating they are using "name brand"/Samsung batteries, and a pretty heft one at 14 AH and 48 volts. Good on them....but pay attention to the gearing stated, that "7 speed" has nothing to do with the motor, that is only up front, where you pedal, the motor, though internally geared down, is ONE SPEED. A mid drive motor, is located "up front", at the chain ring, so takes full mechanical advantage of the gearing action, PLUS is much better balanced, hub drives are ass heavy. They are selling them like hotcakes to people that don't know any better, strictly a entry level bike. Check out Luna Cycle's site (out of El Segundo CA, I mention that as their site has been spammed in the past) to get fully educated on the subject before wasting your money on something that will offer much less performance, though you may end up spending MORE money, you will have a much better ride.

Courieguy; you're obviously well informed, would you please expand on converting (how and price estimate) folding Montague to e-bike. We had a pair of Montague mountain bikes 15-20 yrs ago and decided dismantling/folding Montague vs real mtn bike was about the same to fit in T210N so sold folding bikes and used our "real" mtn bikes.

Thanks for the info.

Jack

While I agree with CourierGuy that a mid-drive bike is technically far superior to a hub drive, I'm not as convinced that it's always the best option for everyone...

In CG's case, he's using his e-bike to ride off-road as well as on-road, in snow, sand, and all weather conditions. It's an essential piece of "business" transportation for him around his job sites. As such, spending 2x to 3x the cost of an "entry level" e-bike to get the best tool for the job is an excellent decision. Like a mechanic purchasing Matco tools, it's an investment, but one that will obviously provide commensurate returns for him...

For me, buying Matco tools would be serious overkill – my Craftsman and Kobalt tools are fine for the use I put them to... Likewise, for my to purchase a relatively expensive e-bike would be a waste of money. For me, an e-bike in the airplane would be a "luxury" item that would only be occasionally used to its full potential. Even a non-electric folding bike would be nice to have on board, and would already be far more efficient than walking... Adding the electric boost capability would be really nice, and would extend my biking range to be able to go places I would otherwise definitely not be able (or willing) to go.

But if I'm going into the backcountry, it's to enjoy nature the same way I enjoy flying: "low and slow"... I have zero thoughts of flying somewhere for the purpose of going "mountain biking" or even serious trail riding. So the advantages of having full suspension, state-of-the-art hydraulic disk brakes, and the more powerful hub-drive for powering up hills, etc. are far less important for me than they clearly are to CG.

Besides, spending $3500 to $5500 for a really nice mid-level e-bike is not something I would ever – under any circumstances – consider doing. I'd far rather have a relatively inexpensive bike AND get an EFIS for my plane, which I could do around half that investment.

That said, I could envision possibly spending under $1000 on something like this Lectric folding e-bike (https://lectricebikes.com/collections/ebikes). Yeah, it's a rear hub-drive. Yeah, it's only a 7-speed entry-level Shimano shifter, and entry-level cable-operated Techtro disk brakes. And yeah, it's a bit on the "porky" side to carry in the plane, (around 65 lbs with battery, fenders, and rack). But since I fly mostly by myself, and have plenty of UL available, that weight would not be a show-stopper.

If I were in CG's shoes, using the bike the way he does (even without the added advantages of the "business use" he gets from his e-bike), I might be more inclined to spring for the better bike. But for the "casual" use I would get from it, a cheaper e-bike makes a LOT more sense to me.

Completely agree. I would like to fly to a rock climbing destination and there are some good surf spots that all require a few miles cruise from the actually strip. The airport is relatively close (4 miles) from the cliff but that is still not easy walking. The little e bike would be perfect.

The Montague, while not a "real" mountain bike, fits in my plane so well it was a no brainer for me. The 68 mm Bafang motor (Luna) and YouTube videos will be all anyone needs to make the conversion. That and a good local bike shop to first remove (and throw away) the stock chain ring/center section, as the motor replaces that, and buy the special wrench needed for that is not worth it, your bike shop will have it.
My IFly GPS screen is littered with saved locations, trails and dirt roads I've seen from the air, that look "interesting." From time to time when I get bored and have nothing better to do, I either will fly to them or even drive (especially during crap flying weather) and explore them, almost always finding something unexpected. Flying with my EMontague has added to my overall flying experience about as much as my 29" Airstreaks: greatly expanded where i can go and what I can do once I get there.
Montague Paratrooper Pro: $950.00
Rohloff hub: $1500.00
Bafang kit inc. 12 AH battery $1200.00
misc. $300.00 The Rohloff hub is the big expense, and is not really needed, but it gives a higher top speed plus a better low range due to it's huge gearing spread, and they are real gears, not a chain derailleur type system. Thus the chain line stays perfect no matter what gear I'm in. I have TWO bikes with Rohloff hubs, I liked the first one so much. So yeah, be careful, this can get expensive if you really want to get the good stuff.

Years ago I landed in Tok and HAD to get to the fish & game office in a short time. The airport is maybe 2 miles from the office? Anyway, I ran the whole damn way. I would have been very happy to have had a bike or something but there would have been no room for anything anyway. Legs don't work the best but they are always with you and the always work.

ington6 wrote:https://www.radpowerbikes.com/products/radmini-electric-folding-fat-bike?avad=55097_b1ec32dfd&utm_source=avantLink&utm_medium=affiliates&utm_campaign=40661&utm_content=55097


Just found this. Fat tires, foldable, and goes 45 miles per charge. Crazy.

I like this https://www.diblasi.com/specs.htm
A few pounds lighter, and better range.

If I didn't want/need a full sized ride for off road like the Montague I have, this would be my next choice. https://lunacycle.com/luna-folding-ebike/ This mid drive bike would absolutely smoke a 20" fat tired hub drive, with greater torque, top speed, less weight and range. It has a quality battery and BMS (battery management system), not some no name Chinese counterfeit one, which is kind of important if you're carrying it in your plane. Check out the video, that is a real world range test, not advertising hype. And, that was without pedaling! I always pedal, why not, I'm right there anyway..., and the increased range from even minor pedaling effort is worth doing so.

The BBS02 motor on the bike is sort of a lightweight version of the BBSHD I have, it has less power but it's lighter, but still more then enough for that lightweight, especially road riding. Being a mid drive, the motor can actually mechanically use the 9 speeds, unlike a hub drive, that is a huge difference often overlooked by people new to the e bike scene. I just noticed...the video range test was with a 6 AH "Mini" battery, the bike as they are currently selling it uses a 12 AH battery, so that range test would be even more favorable.

Unfortunately, Luna doesn't post the weight limits for their bikes, and 99% of the folding bikes from China (where this frame appears to be sourced) have very low weight limits - well under 200 lbs. That just doesn't work for me.

JP256 wrote:Unfortunately, Luna doesn't post the weight limits for their bikes, and 99% of the folding bikes from China (where this frame appears to be sourced) have very low weight limits - well under 200 lbs. That just doesn't work for me.

If you read the link that CG provided, it says the frames don't come from China. Also read the reviews and 280lb guys own them and they are working great for them.

I like the look and the capabilities of your Paratrooper Courierguy, but wonder if I’d really use them.

I like the weight and the price of the Luna. I may start there and then decide if I wish I had a mountain bike for some of the roads I might encounter between airport and the services I’m interested in accessing.

Go big or go home!

As I gradually realized the capability and convenience of an unpowered/regular Montague, about 20 years ago now, one thing led to another. The miles just seemed to fly by, and I hauled a lot of mogas ( two 2 1/2 gallon jugs, before some genius figured that 2 gallon jugs were the max allowable before jumping to 5 gallon jugs, try finding a 2 1/2 gallon fuel jug these days, without the impractical spouts they now have) strapped to the handle bars, hundreds if not thousands of gallons, no kidding. If I chose to do the math, I probably saved enough money over buying avgas (though most of my fuels stops are places where no onfield fuel is available regardless of price) to more then pay for my tricked out ride I currently have. This way of getting fuel is my thing and not for most, if any, others, I get that, (I get a kick out of other Rotax fliers who always burn mogas at home, but on a XC are forced to buy avgas as they have no ground transport much less ground transport plus a way to transport fuel) but back in my XC ultralight days I hauled a boatload of gas by hand, so using a pedal powered bike seemed almost decadent in comparison.

Then ebikes came along, and like the first ultralights were converted hang gliders, the first ebikes were converted regular bikes, not highly engineered (and very expensive) factory built bikes. As tight as a fit as my bike is in my S-7, (while still leaving more then enough room for my usual camping gear, and I don't do minimal) I assumed it was a fantasy to think that I could convert my pedal powered Montague to an ebike, Then I made the mistake of looking into it further, and to my surprise it was eminently doable! Once I experienced the torque, speed, and range of my conversion, I realized it had opened up new vistas of things to do, places to go, and yeah, how much mogas I could haul. That was all with my first Montague conversion, which I ended up selling to Steve Henry. With "go big or go home in mind," I went all out on the current bike, screw the expense, and have not looked back (I have no rear view mirror) some 5,000 miles later.

ANY bike is better then no bike, and the larger planes then the S-7 have a wider variety of which to choose from, whereas the particular way the Mont folds just fits my bird so well I almost (ALMOST, I keep abreast of what's out there) quit looking at others since then. We need to have a contest, (Kevin Quinn could put it together, haha) a combination STOL/spot landing event combined with getting a secured bike out and riding off to do some staged tasks, then riding back to the plane and resecuring it for flight, then a short takeoff, and with some complicated way to score the overall performance of the plane/bike/rider/combo. I am confident I'd have a lock on at least the first years event (I hope Henry doesn't read this.)

To wrap it up, here's a shot of how my bike got me free whiskey (Jameson): there's 8 gallons of mo gas in that folding Travoy bike trailer, at Mackay, at Sammy's gas station/convenience store, which happens to also have a state liquor store, besides E-0 gas), and this day a few weeks ago, their gas was a bit more then 2 bucks a gallon cheaper then the avgas sold in Blackfoot, which is usually about the cheapest around these parts, or so I'm told. I think that pint or whatever it was (I'm not in the habit of buying hard booze, this was for visitors during the holiday season) was 14 bucks, so I got a free bottle of booze with $2.00 left over. That 8 gallons represents about 2.5 hrs of flight time for me, at 90 mph ground speed. Sometimes I calculate the savings as compared to flying a 0-320 or bigger engined Super Cub, but the numbers quickly get so big I give up. Lets just say it's a cost effective way for me to fly, ride, and get drunk. Just kidding about that last part....usually I get a free dinner, motel room, whatever, with the money I save, but that ain't the point, I do it because it's fun and no one else is doing it. The fact that is clearly saves some major dough is cool, but money is not as tight as it used to be for me, I could easily afford a SC and buying avgas anywhere I fly, but I enjoy the challenge, it's been about 15 years since I've burned any avgas, and I fly on average 200 hours a year, you do the math.

A1Skinner wrote:

JP256 wrote:Unfortunately, Luna doesn't post the weight limits for their bikes, and 99% of the folding bikes from China (where this frame appears to be sourced) have very low weight limits - well under 200 lbs. That just doesn't work for me.

If you read the link that CG provided, it says the frames don't come from China. Also read the reviews and 280lb guys own them and they are working great for them.

Well, I actually did read the link CG provided. And quoting from that link: "Made in Taiwan Mosso Bike." Taiwan's official name is "Republic of China". The sourcing of the bike frame from China is not a problem per se, but if you look on AliBaba, you'll see a bunch of "People's Republic of China" (mainland China) sourced bikes with frames that look an awful lot like this Mosso frame. That may be a case of the PRC companies copying Mosso's design, or it could be that Mosso themselves are buying their frames from the PRC.

But again, that isn't really the issue... The only reason I bring it up at all is that I cannot read the Chinese language Mosso web site to garner the information I need. My big concern is that – despite the one (1) review from a guy who weighs 280 lbs and seems to be happy with it – I'd really prefer to know if the bike's frame manufacturer believes the product would be safe for me to ride. I've ridden bikes that were rated for 60 lbs less than I weigh, and they didn't break. But I could feel the frame flexing as I rode, and I could literally see the front fork flexing (moving fwd/aft) while going over bumps. Some of that is in the design, but too much is definitely "not good..." These days, if you sell a bike in the EU, you have to prove (through a stringent certification process) that the bike is safe for the weight capacity you claim. Outside the EU – not so much... Here in the US/Canada, legal liability keeps the vendors relatively honest. But China? Not so much...

I currently own a bike the vendor publicly rated for "250 lb rider capacity." When I called them, they sent me a letter (on company letterhead, signed by the CEO / owner of the company) stating that the bike had been tested for up to 320 lbs of rider + 30 lbs on the rear carrier - 350 lbs total weight capacity. That particular frame/model was developed specifically for a California police department, and it was certified to handle 250-lb officers, plus 40-50 lbs of vests and personal equipment, plus another 30 lbs of "miscellaneous equipment" on the rear carrier... They over-engineered the frame, and it wound up exceeding those limits substantially, so it would be plenty safe for me. I've owned that bike for 10+ years, had zero issues with it, and still love it today. But because it has a "no maintenance, no mess" shaft drive (meaning a very unconventional bottom bracket), I cannot upgrade it to an e-bike using a mid-drive unit (1st preference) or rear hub (they don't make one for internally geared Shimano hubs). I could only do a front hub motor, and I just don't like the way they ride.

Luna bikes look great, and they've got some really nice "DIY" kits (for knowledgeable bike folks) to upgrade a "standard" bike to an e-bike. I've been looking for a folding conventional bike that would support heavier guys like me, and could be upgraded using a Luna mid-drive kit for a couple of years now. Most folding frames are rated for 220 lbs (100 Kg) maximum rider weight or less. The Brompton Paratrooper is a notable exception, with it's 250-lb weight capacity.

I do absolutely love the looks of the Luna Folding Bike, so I guess I'm just going to give the Luna folks a call, and see what they say about its weight capacity. I won't be mountain biking