Well, it seems that fire season took kind of an early start here in Idaho this summer. We've got a couple fires going already, and they'll burn until it snows in most cases. Sometimes, though, they need to be controlled (or perhaps just the illusion of such). Just a reminder to check TFRs before you depart.

I was flying forest fires today, flew 7.8 hours. Folks need to remember that in most cases, tankers and helos are not local pilots, and they don't know landmarks. They go off GPS grids, and fly to the fire, and return for mud and fuel. If there is a fire and a TFR in effect, it's wise to give it more than the 4 or 5 mile radius that is required. We had the air attack ship (me), a lead plane, 4 SEATs and two heavy tankers, a bucket helo and a helitack crew working in a 4-mile radius. TFRs aren't there to bust folks, they're there to keep people safe.

I'll get off my soap box. Fly safe.

John

John,

My son is on a helitak crew for the USFS and he says the same thing. The TFR's are not the whole story. The route to and from the fire as well as the pattern at the tanker base (if it's a public facility and most are) should be given a lot of consideration if your going to be flying anywhere near any of them. I heard a tanker have to extend his downwind, two days ago at Columbia (a busy tanker base during the summer) because of a departing GA flight. At the time they were working a fire in a subdivision and they eventually lost two structures. Was the delay a factor ? Probably not but I hate to see these guys have to fight fire and us at the same time.

BTW, my son was on a hand crew last year and spent a couple of weeks monitoring a land use fire while camped at Big Creek. Nice duty...

Mark

Good points all.

IT is also important to note that oftentimes, the suppression crews' heads are somewhere else.

The closest I've ever come to getting T-boned in an airplane was by a heavy air tanker operating out of a VERY busy uncontrolled field in VERY restricted visibility, and he wasn't using the CTAF, cause he was too busy chatting on tactical frequency with the lead.

My experience with the fire suppression folks is that the helicopter guys are absolutely straight shooters--always use CTAF's, really pay attention to other aircraft in the area, etc.

Sometimes, it seems like the heavy air tanker guys take the attitude that everyone else should get the heck out of their way. At least that's been my experience, and I know of several near mid airs that occured because the tanker wasn't using CTAF. In one of those, a Navajo was the other aircraft, on an instrument approach.

The last couple seasons, I've spent a fair bit of time around the CL 215 guys, and those guys seem to really have it together--very conciensious, they seem to use CTAF's religiously, and they are always looking for traffic. Two years ago, I worked in among three of those guys, doing a project (I was working my project, and they decided to use the lake I was working around). They got in touch with me, got me a discrete frequency from air attack, and we worked in VERY close proximity until I decided it was way more interesting to sit on the water and watch the show. While it got really busy, those guys were on top of it all the time, and happy to work with me.

I agree fully that we all should stay away from a fire, whether there's a TFR declared or not.

On the other hand, if you are operating to, from or around a tanker base, be extra vigilant, cause, as I say, sometimes those folks' attention is somewhere else.

I hope nobody goes off on that comment, cause it's not necessarily intended as a severe criticism. I've been on the other end some, and I can tell you that communications in this environment can get busy.

Just some thoughts. Keep your eyes open, and don't assume anything.

MTV

At least most if not all the planes now have TCAS.

I meant the fire fighting planes. I'm a controller here at KBIL. Fires have been going on for the last several weeks. The last two weeks we have had three P3's, a P2V, six or seven SEATS, Barons, Twin Commanders, 185's and 8-10 helicopters of all different sizes fighting fires. The tankers tell us they have TCAS. The air attacks and some of the other fixed wings do too as they will chase down an intruder before they see him.

While manning a small helispot a few years ago I watched a skirmish line of Bonanzas bust a TFR along the coast of Big Sur in California during a wildfire. They were buzzing along the coast line below the cliffs, flying about 500 agl above the water. Problem was, a round-robin of Sikorsky Sky Cranes (ever seen one of those?) were snorkling water out of the ocean for drops over the nearby fire.

I've never seen a Bonanza stand on its wing before or since in a 90 degree bank, but I can verify that it can be done. And did you know that a Sky Crane can initiate a 1000 fpm climb rate on a dime?

BTW most helicopters don't have TCAS. I'm not aware of any on government contract around here or some areas around the west that I've worked that do. And at most fires, the helicopter traffic far exceeds the fixed wing traffic.

TCAS doesn't change anyone's attitude, except maybe to make them even more complacent.

TCAS also only works if the conflict aircraft has a functional transponder, and its really only effective if its either mode c or s equipped.

There is no doubt that a lot of TFR busts by "tourists" occur around fires, and they shouldn't.

It is interesting, though that two years ago, with many big TFR's right to the north of Fairbanks for most of the summer, there were only 8 TFR busts reported.

Seven of those were fire fighting aircraft that weren't cleared into the TFR.

MTV

There are a number of excellent flight planning web sites that give quick TFR information. I use www.aeroplanner.com which allows you to check TFR's without subscribing. It's worth a look each time you fly just to see if the Prez is in the neighborhood. He can pop up anywhere, anytime and I can guarantee they will file a violation if you bust one of his TFR's. Go to www.airspace.nifc.gov and you will find a wealth of information on resource agency airspace info including the online tutorial for the Grand Canyon SFAR which you need annually if you fly there.

Another great tool is the AOPA Real time flight planner. It is free to members and has all the TFR as well as all other airspace on it. Great tool for flight planning and obtaining weather.

Great tool for flight planning and obtaining weather.

I just wish it did multiple legs.

But the price is right!!!

Don

While manning a small helispot a few years ago I watched a skirmish line of Bonanzas bust a TFR along the coast of Big Sur in California during a wildfire

There was (still is?) a group of Bonanza and Commanche pilots (they called themselves the Bonanches) based in southern CA who liked to fly in formation/gaggles. I wonder if you saw them.

KR5T wrote:

Great tool for flight planning and obtaining weather.

I just wish it did multiple legs.

But the price is right!!!

Don

Maybe I'm not following what you mean, but it can do multiple legs. Once you put in your To and From, just use your cursor to rubber band it to your intermediate waypoints. All legs will be presented on your nav log.

You can also store user defined waypoints, i.e. any strip that doesn't appear in their data base, and it even lets you lable it with either an airport symbol or any of a hand full other symbols that you would like.

For coming home, hit the "flip trip" (or whatever it is labeled) in the drop down menu and your trip home is planned.

Lot's of funcitonality that may not be apparant if you take a few minutes to read the user guide.

And you're right, the price is right on!

Voyager can be downloaded for free and is a pretty good flightplanning tool. It has a great weather overlay and checks for TFR's. Its worth checking out.