mr scout wrote:

What should I do? Buy the Scout, rent a 4 seater when I need it?

Thanks,
Darin

Buy the Scout rent the four seater. PM me if you like, I may have a couple tips for you.

PM Sent,
D.

My first plane at 106hours tt was a 235hp M5 Maule which I could'nt afford to insure, and I've been happy flying ever since. I learned in a T'craft.
Jeremy

If you can afford that Husky an 80k used Maule would leave you a very generous insurance and fuel reserve to go do alot of flying. Grass strip friendly... Good useful load.... 4 seats. easily removable to accomodate dogs, camping gear or whatever....not blazing fast, but OK speed.

m7flyer wrote:If you can afford that Husky an 80k used Maule would leave you a very generous insurance and fuel reserve to go do alot of flying. Grass strip friendly... Good useful load.... 4 seats. easily removable to accomodate dogs, camping gear or whatever....not blazing fast, but OK speed.

The avionics stack between my legs in the Husky is a real turn off. The entry and exit from the Scout seems much better.

I have e-mails into the local Maule rep.

D.

Scouts are nice planes, owned one for 5 years (700 hrs) , baggage door is a must, VG's are a must, great 2 seat airplane with so-so baggage space. easy to fly / land, and insurance is affordable. You'll really enjoy it.

Little off topic here but if you can afford a new plane but can't handle $600/month insurance, I think you may need to sit down and refigure this airplane purchase. Airplanes are expensive, there is nearly always something needing updating or fixing. They can be affordable though if you can do alot of the stuff yourself with the approval/sign-off of your friendly mechanic.
I have a 172 and a Champ, the 172, in my opinion, is probably one of the best all around planes to own for a beginner. It will haul a decent load and is economical to operate. It really doesn't cost much more to fly than my Champ. The Champ has an 0-235 so the fuel burn between the two is not much different as long as I am not pushing the 172 hard.

Back to your question....The Scout is a great plane and there are used ones out there for a very reasonable price.

WWhunter wrote:Little off topic here but if you can afford a new plane but can't handle $600/month insurance, I think you may need to sit down and refigure this airplane purchase. Airplanes are expensive, there is nearly always something needing updating or fixing. They can be affordable though if you can do alot of the stuff yourself with the approval/sign-off of your friendly mechanic.
I have a 172 and a Champ, the 172, in my opinion, is probably one of the best all around planes to own for a beginner. It will haul a decent load and is economical to operate. It really doesn't cost much more to fly than my Champ. The Champ has an 0-235 so the fuel burn between the two is not much different as long as I am not pushing the 172 hard.

Back to your question....The Scout is a great plane and there are used ones out there for a very reasonable price.

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$600 a month in insurance seem crazy. A note on a brand new scout is like $1400 or so. Paying another 43% for insurance seems ridiculous.
$80K coverage on a 77 182 is $1600. So, $1600 vs. $7200 a yr for insurance will factor into my decision.

Insurance works into the TCO of anything. Also, any taxes (sales, property, etc) Hangar, annual, overhaul, misc.

172s are nice planes, but heck - they are essentially 2 seaters due to load anyway. I only have 100 hours and I am kinda bored with 172s.
A scout is on the list, a 182, and I am still looking. There are a lot things about the scout I like. One of my favorites is how simple it is. Being in Engineering, I can really appreciate simple.

D.

ddivinia wrote:

m7flyer wrote:If you can afford that Husky an 80k used Maule would leave you a very generous insurance and fuel reserve to go do alot of flying. Grass strip friendly... Good useful load.... 4 seats. easily removable to accomodate dogs, camping gear or whatever....not blazing fast, but OK speed.

The avionics stack between my legs in the Husky is a real turn off. The entry and exit from the Scout seems much better.

I have e-mails into the local Maule rep.

D.

All these responses are pointing you right at a 182 for your first plane. I had a 67 182 until 2 years ago. $70K hull was $1000 a year. Until you get a lot more time and experience you're nuts going into the backcountry as a zero time tailwheel pilot in a tailwheel plane. The 182 forgives a lot of the mistakes you're going to make until you can learn about them and prevent them in the first place. As a TW pilot you have to be much more concerned with the wind than if you fly a 182, especially as a new TW pilot. With the 182 the wind direction is irrelevant until it's 15 knots on the tail, you can't say that as a TW pilot. I installed the extended baggage from Selkirk in my 182. With the back seats removed you had about 8 feet of cargo space behind the front seats. It's almost a necessity if you're going to take the family with four seats in. When looking at fuel burn don't just look at the 75% cruise fuel burn. If you don't want to burn that much then don't. How hard is that? My Bo has a 75% burn of 15 gph, but if I want to fly alongside you in your 182 while your at 75% in the backcountry I'll be burning 8 gph. Nobody says you have to fly 75% all the time.

jmtgt wrote:What is the budget you can spend on a plane?

Just depends on my mood of the week. I started out saying less than $100K.

D.

All these responses are pointing you right at a 182 for your first plane. I had a 67 182 until 2 years ago. $70K hull was $1000 a year. Until you get a lot more time and experience you're nuts going into the backcountry as a zero time tailwheel pilot in a tailwheel plane.
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Well, yeah - I never said I was going into the backcountry right off the bat. There is no way I would gp try any off field stuff. I wil be sticking to paved and some grass strips (after they dry out around here).






The 182 forgives a lot of the mistakes you're going to make until you can learn about them and prevent them in the first place. As a TW pilot you have to be much more concerned with the wind than if you fly a 182, especially as a new TW pilot. With the 182 the wind direction is irrelevant until it's 15 knots on the tail, you can't say that as a TW pilot.

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Part of my thinking was getting a TW will make me a better pilot instead of getting lazy in a nose drager.


D.

Maybe a Citabria with a good old 150hp engine and a fixed pitch prop would be a thought. Insurance, fuel and upkeep would be less than a Scout, and you could get a great one for less than 50K. Plus, you could use it to learn some basic aerobatics...a great way to build hours.

Darin, here in lies the problem. No one airplane does it all. The high Maule insurance is only temporary, as long as you don’t crash it.

If you go tail wheel right from the get go you don’t have time to develop bad habits. When I bought my M7 I was scared as hell because of all the ground loop horror stories. No problem so far, knock on wood. Remember, not that long ago everybody flew TW.

O yea I forgot to tell you. Avemco was the ONLY company who would touch me. They required 30 hr of dual in a Maule. I did most of mine in the pattern except for slow, stall, and steep turns. I had 275 landings at sign off.

All this being said, the 182 is a damn fine flying machine. Just remember, if you ever ball one up, a tube frame is like a race car. A Cessna is like a beer can coffin. Cheers…Rob

Personally, I would suggest getting a tailwheel airplane. They're just more fun!
I would also suggest not getting an expensive higher-performance machine for your first airplane. Get something moderately priced and moderately powered- Pacer,170,small maule,Cub,Citabria/Scout, etc. Power CAN be an excuse for lack of skill. Learn to fly the thing right- then step up later if you still feel the need. You may not feel that need. I know lots of people who step up in airplanes to a certain point, then I notice them flying less and less. Either the cost is getting to them, or the bigger airplane is just a hassle to get in and out of the hangar & move around on the ground, or something. Very few are smart enough (IMHO) to step back down to a smaller, lighter, funner airplane. 160 or maybe 180 horsepower seems to be my line between an affordable airplane and a bank-buster. Of course, a lemon can kill your budget, whether it's high power or low!

Eric

I'll throw in my 2 cents...

I would buy a Piper PA-12 Super Cruiser with it's wide cabin and three seats.

Then I would add a good intercom (portable?) with music input, Great ANR heatsets (Bose X, Telex 50-D, or LightSPEED Thirty 3G), A Garmin 396/496 with the XM weather & music. You are going to need this stuff because it is going to take you a while to get anywhere. But it's faster, or at least more fun than driving!

Then fly the heck out of it and build a hundered(s) hours of TW time. If you need more space sell the Piper and buy something bigger.

-Todd Giencke

True'r words were never spoken than Eric's last post.

Tailwheel flying is FUN, even if it's more dangerous and challenging.

Whenever I get down because my plane can't realistically haul 4 people, full fuel, and gear off a 1500 ft strip and cruise 150 mph at 16,000 ft I think about how the stuff it does do only costs 8 gph and $450/mo for payment + insurance.

Plus, I can wrangle it myself on the ground.

Also, I have really fun times ahead to look forward to...like spending quality time with the bird, bucking rivets on replacement seat rails. *Cue "You're My Best Friend" by Queen.

If your the type that likes to work on your plane all week to fly on a weekend the old birds are grand.

I was working on mine all weekend in case I needed to fly all week. Having one that's not been worn out, rebuilt, neglected or a hanger queen is really enjoyable.

ddivinia wrote:All these responses are pointing you right at a 182 for your first plane. I had a 67 182 until 2 years ago. $70K hull was $1000 a year. Until you get a lot more time and experience you're nuts going into the backcountry as a zero time tailwheel pilot in a tailwheel plane.
----

Well, yeah - I never said I was going into the backcountry right off the bat. There is no way I would gp try any off field stuff. I wil be sticking to paved and some grass strips (after they dry out around here).






The 182 forgives a lot of the mistakes you're going to make until you can learn about them and prevent them in the first place. As a TW pilot you have to be much more concerned with the wind than if you fly a 182, especially as a new TW pilot. With the 182 the wind direction is irrelevant until it's 15 knots on the tail, you can't say that as a TW pilot.

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Part of my thinking was getting a TW will make me a better pilot instead of getting lazy in a nose drager.


D.

You don't have to stay on pavement, matter of fact you should land off road as much as possible. Getting a tailwheel doesn't make you a better pilot simply because you have one. Practice makes you better, no matter what you fly. Hang around the airport long enough and you will see some guys flying tailwheels and you wonder how they even get it off the ground.

I was waiting for a comment about the 182 being foolproof, so I could point out that there's no such thing as foolproof to a sufficiently determined fool.
One glitch with the 182 series with respect to backcountry/grass strip use is that nosewheel. There was some recent posting on this. The 182 nosewheel attach structure is vulnerable to damage from rough ground/hard landings, the heavy nose makes it hard to baby.
A PA12 (the "fat cub") is a good idea, hadn't thought about that.
Regarding airplane budget- one of the main reasons I've never owned a 180 in spite of several bouts of 180 fever is that I can reasonably afford to buy one or to operate one-- but not both! After both crunching the numbers myself and talking to friends that stepped up from a 170/172 to a 180/182, the bigger airplane will cost at least 50% more to operate (fly and maintain) than the smaller. Some friends have reported that it's more like double- guess it all depends on the particular airplanes.
Spend all/most of your budgeted money on the purchase, and if an unexpected engine overhaul or major airframe repair should become necesary, you just might come up short. I have one friend in particular who is on such a tight budget that if he even just needed a cylinder or two replaced, he'd be out of the flying game for quite a while.

Eric

Why dont you just buy a Super Cub and be done with it?

Problem solved - an opening in the local Piper Cub club came up. So, I am going get my feet wet in their J-3. I am still looking at a Cessna 205 as my hauler, but this j3 should help fix my tailwheel itch. Or it might make the itch worse...

D.