After being out of print for a while, the freshly updated flying in Mexico guide from Caribbean Sky Tours is finally available. The Mexican government doesn't really print anything like an AFD, so this book is the privately produced bible for airports in Mexico. Anyone desiring to fly here should get one.

http://shop.caribbeanskytours.com/categ ... egoryId=31

So you're in Mexico? My sister is on a missions trip to Monterey. I have often wondered what flying down there was like. Is it militaristic? Or is my perception so misguided by propaganda that I have no clue?

xcalibursword wrote:So you're in Mexico? My sister is on a missions trip to Monterey. I have often wondered what flying down there was like. Is it militaristic? Or is my perception so misguided by propaganda that I have no clue?

Maybe a bit of both. Certainly there is more of a military presence. Many, many airports have outposts on them. Even my base, which until two years ago was a dirt strip and still only gets maybe five operations per day, has a military presence. That said, even though you will likely be approached by someone in uniform at every airport you go to, they have been - without exception - polite and courteous in my experience. They will have a clipboard and request your name and departure/destination. They will usually be 18 years old and just doing time. They will speak zero english. Usually, since they don't understand my name and I don't know how to spell it in Spanish, I'll just cautiously reach one hand for their clipboard and make a writing motion with the other while saying something like "perdon, yo escribe?" Then I write what they need and everyone is happy.

Occasionally, even for domestic flights - but *always* if your departure or destination is international, they will walk a dog around after asking you to make your bags available on the ramp. Again, they have always been polite. They were even polite when my smart ass friend was blasting Camino de Guanajuato from his car on the ramp while they did their inspection.



The reason I call him a smart ass, the lyrics of the first verse are approximately "life is worthless, you come into the world crying, you leave the world crying, life is worthless". It's actually one of my favorite songs and is written about one of my favorite cities, but I still wasn't sure I would be cranking it. Oh, and it was stuck on repeat while he went into the Comandante's office to talk about a hanger issue. The military just chuckled, did their job, cleared me to go and wandered back to their base.

So that's the military part, and indeed there is more of it than you experience in the US. But it's no headache.

To the degree there is a headache it's not on the military side. It's that you can plan on an extra 15-20 minutes for each flight due to non-military issues (or paying an FBO $50 to deal with the hassle for you). The hassle is that you have to go to 2-4 different places to do a flight. Firstly, every flight requires a flight plan. Even if you're just going up for some pattern work. This needs to be stamped by the Comandante.

You go to another office to order fuel.

You go to another office to pay for fuel.

You go to another office for a flight briefing.

If you are arriving or departing for the US, then you have to figure out where customs and immigration are also.

Once you know the system, it's really not that bad. In IT we would call it "trivial but time consuming". The first time we came it took us over two hours to get everything figured out. But, true to what we've found nation wide in terms of Mexican hospitality, the flight briefer was super kind and gave us her card with her personal cell phone on it so that if we got in a pinch and needed help navigating the system from someone who spoke english, we could call her.

Lots more can be found on our blog. This one is a good starting point.

http://leftbase.com/?p=1046

That's great Intel.

rw2 is portraying an accurate description for flying in and into Mexico. I believe that operations in Baja are a little simpler but not by a lot. Patience and attitude goes a long way, probably good advice anywhere. Over the years I have seen GA flying in Baja dwindle to almost nothing, a real shame. FF

FloatFlyer wrote:Patience and attitude goes a long way, probably good advice anywhere.

Amen to that. Two things I've learned that make things go more smoothly.

1) I get frustrated a lot by my lack of Spanish depth. It is very easy for that frustration to be read as frustration with the person I'm dealing with not speaking english (many americans come to 'real' Mexico expecting it to be like an all-inclusive resort at the beach). Apologizing for not understanding ("lo siento, por favor repita lentamente") will show that you are at least trying.

2) This is the bigger one. Mexican culture is built around "knowledge" and "education". Knowledge you get from your school, but education you get from your mother. If you are impolite it is a reflection on your mother. Saying "hola" is not polite (don't worry, it isn't exactly rude either). Saying "buenos dias", "buenos tardes" or "buenos noches" with a smile on your face is a magic key to look like you were raised properly. You can walk down the street and say "buenos tardes" to punks standing on a corner as you pass and they will look at you with surprise and reply politely in kind.

Another good key phrase is "buen provecho". When you have a meal with a mexican, say this. It basically means "enjoy your meal", literally "good benefit", but more importantly it's one of those phrases that shows you were raised properly. Keep this one in mind and you'll also notice that mexicans say this as they enter or leave restaurants, certainly to people they may know, but also sometimes to random people who happen to also be eating there.

If you are interested or planning to fly Mexico or Central America, I would seriously consider becoming a member of Baja Bush Pilots (www.bajabushpilots.com). IMO they are the most knowledgeable organization on flying there.

I have flown Mexico and Central America since I started flying almost 40 years ago, and it's no big deal. It's just a little different. As long as you don't expect things to be the same as in the States, you'll do fine. Plus, it is that difference that makes it interesting. I live in El Salvador, by the way!

Been many years since I've flown to Mexico.. at least in a GA Airplane.
Considering all the other places to fly, I don't understand the novelty of flying to Mexico.
I've flown all over the world, and don't see any reason for leaving the USA.
If you want to believe there is no risk flying to Mexico, so be it, but don't look for sympathy from me.
There is a reason you have to have insurance for Mexico, and it isn't because Mexico requires it!
So many great places to see in the US, and you want to go to Mexico?
Perhaps it's to see what's coming to a State near you.
Just do 't understand why.
Way to much risk the way I see it!
Rant over!

SkyTruck wrote:Been many years since I've flown to Mexico.. at least in a GA Airplane.
Considering all the other places to fly, I don't understand the novelty of flying to Mexico.

For me it's because I live here and love the culture. For others it might be that costs are much lower in Mexico than the US.

That's not to say that I haven't loved flying in the Rockies. Just that the world is a big place and many people like to explore it.

SkyTruck wrote:If you want to believe there is no risk flying to Mexico, so be it, but don't look for sympathy from me.
There is a reason you have to have insurance for Mexico, and it isn't because Mexico requires it!

All three of the policies I considered last time around included Mexico. Two of the three excluded Alaska. At least one of them excluded Canada.

I think you are referencing outdated information that Mexico used to require insurance from a Mexican carrier. That hasn't been true for a while. When it was true, it wasn't because flying here is risky, it's because american pilots were causing losses, fleeing the country and leaving Mexicans holding the bag. The current situation is that when you fly in for the first time each year you have to show proof of insurance with Mexican coverage.

SkyTruck wrote:So many great places to see in the US, and you want to go to Mexico?

Because it's awesome!

You seem to be taking this as some sort of vote against the US. If you don't want to travel, fine. Don't travel. Enjoy Glacier National Park. Enjoy Idaho. Enjoy the Pacific Coast. Enjoy living in arguably the best country in the world for GA.

But what *I* (and apparently millions of americans who travel abroad every year) enjoy is variety. I've loved my time in Japan. I've loved my time in Austria. I've loved my time in Qatar. I've loved my time in India. I think I'm a different person today than I would have been without those experiences. Now I'm loving my time in Mexico (particularly while typing this from my rooftop looking over the valley and watching the clouds from the edge of tropical storm Fernand roll across the sky, listening to the kids in our alley play soccer and contemplating walking half a block downhill to La Sirena Gorda for a beer with local friends).

SkyTruck wrote:Perhaps it's to see what's coming to a State near you.

I'm from Chicago. We already have a very large Mexican population. A couple of them are the reason why I ended up here. We have friends from the area we're living in Mexico who clued us into it. You might be interested to learn that net immigration is from the US to Mexico, not the other way around.

SkyTruck wrote:Just do 't understand why.
Way to much risk the way I see it!
Rant over!

If your main concern is the risk, then I have good news for you. Most of Mexico is as safe as most of the US. There are dangerous areas in both countries I wouldn't want to hang out in (e.g. St. Louis and Juarez), but the state I live in has a crime rate lower than Vermont.

I thought I read somewhere that Off airport landings are forbidden by foreign pilots in Mex due the drug problems. If that's the case the Baja Bush pilots should change there name.

exodus wrote:I thought I read somewhere that Off airport landings are forbidden by foreign pilots in Mex due the drug problems. If that's the case the Baja Bush pilots should change there name.

Sad, but true. Also due to the war on drugs there have been some previously registered back country strips that the government dozed to prevent their use. It's a shame. I hope it changes as the US continues to move toward legalization of pot and Mexico continues to have a growing economy.

Rw2, I just spent about an hour reading up on your town, San Miguel de Allende.
It sounds mighty nice overall. It is now on my bucket list.....


Thanks for the introduction/enlightenment.
lc

Littlecub wrote:Rw2, I just spent about an hour reading up on your town, San Miguel de Allende.
It sounds mighty nice overall. It is now on my bucket list.....


Thanks for the introduction/enlightenment.
lc

You just made my day. Come soon while we're still here! We'd be happy to show you around!

Rw2, I'd love to . I need to work on my CFO/CEO's attitude about Old Mexico's dangers and (our) priorities.
It will require "time".....

Thank you for the offer. How kind of you.
lc

edit for clearification

It's been 10 years probably since I've been down and I'm jonesen for a Baja fix. I've had a lot of fun going to Alfonsinos at Gonzaga Bay, Punta San Fransisco, Mulege and others. IMHO there is more significant risk (limited SAR) than flying here in the good ol USA, the challenge makes it more fun. Limited gas is a challenge also.
http://www.bajabushpilots.com/
Sep 27 '13 Sun & San Felipe Beach Party 3 Open


There is a runway there at low tide below is my old 170 and a Baja bug a guy loaned me for a day.

Glidergeek wrote:IMHO there is more significant risk (limited SAR) than flying here in the good ol USA, the challenge makes it more fun. Limited gas is a challenge also.

Interesting point on SAR. I hadn't heard that one before. Much of my flying has been over mountains and the Caribbean lately, so I maybe I have a higher tolerance for risk than I should. How did you conclude that SAR was weaker here? Does this mean that my 406ELT/PLB is essential rather than just a good idea? (sidebar: Mexico follows the FAA lead on ELTs and recently extended its deadline for requiring 406 technology to match the FAA requirement)

On the gas front, this is true. People flying down should be aware that fuel (I'm pointing out that it's not just avgas that's less available) isn't available at as many airports as US flyers are accustomed. For example Celaya (MMCY) is near me, has a 6,300 foot paved runway, a bunch of hangers, light jet traffic, an active drop zone and no fuel.

One thing to know is that many airports have landing fees, particularly those that have fuel. But if you make sure to note on your flight plan that you landed for fuel only because your 'real' destination doesn't have any then usually the landing fee will be waived. I don't have my notes with me, but if anyone needs this I can dig up the way to note this in spanish.

"Interesting point on SAR. I hadn't heard that one before".

If you don't come back do you think CAP gets a TFR and goes down and conducts a SAR? Who conducts SARs down there?

Glidergeek wrote:"Interesting point on SAR. I hadn't heard that one before".

If you don't come back do you think CAP gets a TFR and goes down and conducts a SAR? Who conducts SARs down there?

Yup, that's what I'm asking. Do you know? I thought you were making a statement that it was worse here than in the states.

I know there is a CAP like organization down here, but I don't know if they are any better or worse than CAP in the US. The military is more involved in things down here, but I don't know if they get called in on SAR. Let me see what I can find out.

rw2 wrote:Let me see what I can find out.

From my local expert: "SAR in Mexican waters and within 10 Km of the coastline is the
responsibility of the Mexican Navy. Also, 406 MHz ELT or PLB signals
emanating from Mexico are also routed to the Navy. However, if the ELT
coordinates or the report of a missing aircraft is more than 10 Km from the
coastline, then it falls into a large, dark grey area with much less clearly
defined roles. What we have been told is that the report is funneled to the
nearest DGAC office which then coordinates with the local federal, state and
local authorities to see what resources and personnel can be brought to bear
in the SAR."

DGAC is the Mexican FAA.

Mexico is very dangerous! Americans should definitely not visit! This video proves it!

http://vimeo.com/17063158






Lived in Mexico for a few years back in the 80s.....love it! People, culture, history, weather....fantastic!! Just got back last week from 10 days down south swimming with the whale sharks. Good times!

The government's the problem down there but seems that as of late we might not want to throw stones.