I don't pretend to be a backcountry pilot but I love reading these post and would love to eventually get into this type of flying.

I live in socal and love visiting bishop and mammoth and would eventually like to fly up there.

Does anyone have advice on flying the valley?
Especially the wind. I know they can get insane mountain waves.

Thanks in advance.

Wait for nice Fall or Winter weather. Go early morning. Read Ford's migration post re: Mammoth (don't go there). Have a beautiful flight.

Gump

I've been up and down the Owens Valley twice in the last two years on my trips to and from Boise and SoCal. I must have always got lucky, because the three times through the Owens Valley, it was nice and smooth for me.

Also, depending your path of flight, day of the week and time of day, I found flying through the Edwards Restricted Airspace simple if your already on VFR Flight Following.

Pictures from my flight from Boise to SoCal (12-08).


Heading south for Bishop. Here I'm about 40nm north of Bishop (KBIH) and the White Mountain range to the left.


Short final for 12 at Bishop, CA.


After fueling up in Bishop, I'm headed south for SoCal.

Here's some pictures from my trip to SoCal one year later (Dec. 2009)


About 25nm of Bishop with the White Mountains to my left


3 6 Delta parked at Bishop. The Sierras in the background.


Haiwee Reservoirs


Honda Motors test facility


Edwards AFB


Almost to L.A. About to fly over the mountains north of L.A.


Mt. Baldy to the east there.


Santa Ana Mtns in the distance. Almost to Fullerton (KFUL)

Thanks for the replies!

Besides mammoth being extremely pricy to land and fuel the density altitude might get a little to high for my experience and equipment.

Any suggestions on altitude flown and path? certain winds / directions?

Here's some more from my flight from Fullerton to Boise on 2-15-10. Stopped for fuel at Bishop.


Headed straight north for Bishop right out of Fullerton. Cleared through LAX Class Charlie!


Edwards AFB again.


Owens Valley, CA


Owens Valley, CA


Owens Valley, CA


Owens Valley, CA


Lone Pine Airport, CA


I think Mt Whitney


Owens Valley


3 6 Delta at Bishop (KBIH), CA

Heck, here's a link to more pictures from my trip.
http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=53161&id=1324371585&l=0255e687f8

Titus577 wrote:Thanks for the replies!

Besides mammoth being extremely pricy to land and fuel the density altitude might get a little to high for my experience and equipment.

Any suggestions on altitude flown and path? certain winds / directions?

What kind of plane do you fly? Where are you based at?

Titus577 wrote:I don't pretend to be a backcountry pilot but I love reading these post and would love to eventually get into this type of flying.

I live in socal and love visiting bishop and mammoth and would eventually like to fly up there.

Does anyone have advice on flying the valley?
Especially the wind. I know they can get insane mountain waves.

Thanks in advance.

Wave is predictable. Watch weather closely before you go, if you see low pressure moving in from the north or north west expect mountain wave, if you see winds aloft forecast 25+ from the west or north west at BIH or WJF or RNO expect it. If you're not experienced with wave and you don't have to go don't go, it certainly is manageable if you know how to use it. Here's a good example, a flight by Jim Payne he launched at Rosamond turned Bishop back to Rosamond back to looks like maybe Independence back to the south end of Owens Valley back up to looks like maybe Olancha then south to Warner Springs and north to Palm Springs, almost all in wave.

http://www.onlinecontest.org/olc-2.0/gl ... =642693630 1650 km 138km per hr 11hrs 54min, man that's a lot of pee bags! scroll down and read Tom's comment.

I appreciate all the replies.... The pictures and mountain wave info help a lot.

I fly a 172 out of F70... Knownig the limitation of densisty altitude will keep me from flying into mammoth and sticking to the cooler months in bishop.

Titus577 wrote:I appreciate all the replies.... The pictures and mountain wave info help a lot.

I fly a 172 out of F70... Knownig the limitation of densisty altitude will keep me from flying into mammoth and sticking to the cooler months in bishop.

I really don't know much about your 172, but since you'll be following highways up and back, keep it light and plain to be light on fuel in and out of Mammoth. Throw some fuel in at Bishop before headed back south.

I'll probably stay down at Bishop but if I do go into Mammoth I'll definatlty go light on fuel... I know you guys are flying larger planes but what altitude do you like to cruise at? Do you have a preference on what side of the valley you fly on? Or more depending on wind direction?

If the winds are really strong in the Owens Valley, I would go down the west side of the Sierras. Mammoth Pass is about 9,000 msl and will be rough till you are thru it but always smoother on the other side. The worst turbulence is usually around the Owens Dry Lake and can make you wish you were on the ground. Also Mammoth can get some extremely strong crosswinds out of Convict Canyon. Good luck.

FloatFlyer wrote:If the winds are really strong in the Owens Valley... The worst turbulence is usually around the Owens Dry Lake and can make you wish you were on the ground.

In some ways this is relative but what would you consider strong winds.... that usually generate tough turbulence?

I fly the Owens valley to Bishop and back from L.A. about 6-8 times per year - here are a few observations:

- The valley is one of the most visually spectacular flying routes anywhere in North America. Doing it in winter with snow on the ground is just breathtaking. I've flown all over North America, and this is one of the best routes I've seen.

- The wave is no big deal, because its relatively rare and completely predictable. I have two things I check before I fly the valley: (1) the winds aloft at 16,000ft over the sierra - if they're above 20kts I get worried - and (2) the pressure difference between China Lake (high desert) and Lone Pine (mountains) - if its more than a few points different I worry about mechanical turbulence around the south end of the Owens dry lake. There's also bad thermal turbulence in the summer around that lake bed. I also check for haze, not because its a problem but because the valley is most spectacular with 100-mile views.

- There are lots on interesting destinations beyond Bishop. Independence is a classic small town, with an old hotel and a fancy french restaurant. Lee Vining is a very cool little mountain town (but with nasty crosswinds at the runway and a high DA). Lone Pine is a great airport, with fuel and a courtsy car and easy access to Whitney and Cottonwood lakes by road. Tonopah (about 80 miles east of Bishop, in NV) has fuel, an old and interesting town and some great hotel/casinos with free shuttles from/to the airport. Bishop is a very cool place too - great airport, great town and lots to do and see. I've never been to Mammoth.

- Traffic is generaly not a problem. I talk to Joshua approach up to Lone Pine to get some comfort re miltiary traffic (including Reaper drones). North of Bishop you can get radar following from Oakland center. Between Lone Pine and Bishop you're on your own, but its not a big deal if you look out the window and listen to the local ctafs.

- The valley is huge - no worries about restricted flying space, etc.

In general its a lot easier, safer and simpler to fly the Owens Valley than it looks from the sectional.. Good luck, and enjoy an amazing flight!

I appreciate all the quick and informative responses. You guys are great.

Do you guys have any recomendations on resources that goes in depth on mountian weather, wind, mountain waves, etc?

I'm tremendiously great for all your wisdom on flying the valley!

If you want a detailed explaination of the Sierra Mountain Wave and what it can do to light aircraft I highly recommend "Exploring the Monster", by Robert Whelan (http://www.amazon.com/Exploring-monster ... 1891118323). The Amazon price is $50-$70, but I picked it up at the bookstore in Bishop for about $10 I think.

This book is just incredible - it follows a team of amateur sailplane pilots in the 1950s who flew out of Bishop and basicaly discovered the mountain wave effect and explored the Sierra wave in detail. For a technical book its a gripping adventure, with amazing people and lots of drama, comedy, tradegy and learning. Read this book and you'll know most of what there is to know about the Sierra mountain wave in the Owens Valley.

This book would make a really great movie - the description of the pilot hanging on his chute watching little pieces of his disintegrated airplane being sucked upwards into the rotor cloud is particularly gripping!

Thanks for the book recomendation. When I was searching the internet I think I came across that book.

I know of couple different sites for weather but what do you guys use? To check the difference in pressure from the two locations are you using the altimeter setting given through awos?

Travel North or South and use the wave it can be great. Invisible Rotors have kicked my ass many times when Ive crossed them. Head set falling off, had a plastic tackle box break my canopy once. Been so bad I would have to check for aircraft structural damadge.

I just use the baro numbers for NID and BIH off the METARs, and you can also call the Lone Pine airport and get the baro from their ASOS... Its also worth checking out baro at Fresno too. Big pressure differences within a few dozen miles over big mountains are bad news.

I'm way too worried about the rotor to use the wave for lift in the Owens valley. When that wave fully develops then there IS a rotor somewhere in the valley, and its usualy invisable unless the air is real wet, and it can do very serious damage to your airplane. Another worry is that you can quickly end up way up in the flight levels, climbing with the nose down and the airspeed close to Vne - 50kt winds going straight up. Saves gas, though!

Here's a good source for winds aloft.
http://aviationweather.gov/products/nws/fdwinds/