Hey Mike I would agree with what Dave said about landing off airport. I went down there with the Baja Bush Pilots group about six years ago and had a good time. Have the right attitude and don't be in a hurry and things will be good. The parking at Alfonsina can go underwater at high tide so parking is high on the beach as you can. We left our airplanes at Alfonsina as before the federales showed up and they came looking for us and weren't real happy we hadn't waited by our planes. Cheers Rob

Go for it! You'll have a good time. The off airport landing thing is probably not a good idea, as stated on the BBp forum.
If you go to Mulege, then run up to Punta Chivato, about 10 mins up the coast. You can land there and walk the 20 feet down to the beach and hang out for a few hours.
We went to Laguna San Ignacio for whale watching, not as part of the BBP trip, just by ourselves. Fantastic.
If you are going to be over that side for San Ignacio then check out the little beach strip at Campo Rene. A cool spot.
Have fun and report back.
Saludos.
RR

Also dont forget to get your radio operators license. They probably wont ask but its simple to get so u might as well.

If you can,go to "punta San francisqueto" ,super chill place on the water.
At least the last time I was there. 2003 ish.
Bring your laid back attitude and have fun.
Down town muluge is a cool place (was) to burn a day walking around.
Charlie

Thanks everyone for the great info. Well be there the week before the Baja Pilots crowd is due so hopefully we'll be ok. Good to know I shouldn't plan to land off airport since we certainly don't need any extra attention. I'll be ready to wait for the Federalies to check us out at Alfonsina's so thanks for the heads up Rob.

Can't wait to get down there, so really hoping the weather will let us get out of Elko. If we can make St. George or Vegas, we should be good the rest of the way weather wise; at least that's the thought.

Mike

Glidergeek wrote:More info from the yahoo group at alfonsinas and a short video from the last time I was down there. The motel is at the end of the strip it is red. Wish I could join you guys I just had a surgery yesterday and not sure I'll be airworthy in 2 weeks.
[vimeo]https://vimeo.com/92735867[/vimeo] .......

Looks like a fun place. A question...looks like the camera shsip just took off from or is overflying a strip right at the beginning of the video, then it makes a left turn and lands on the strip with the red motel at the end. Is that first place another strip? Looks pretty wide to be a road..in fact, looks a lot wider than the motel strip.

A trip down to that part of the world is pretty daunting to some of us, esp in this post-911 and drug wars era. Thanks for posting the pireps and tips, should make it a lot easier for newbies or at least a lot less nerve-wracking.

Hotrod 180, I had just taken off from the Rancho Grande airstrip east bound, then made an immediate left base to final onto Alfonsinas airstrip. During high tide that Back Bay encroaches up over the runway.

tide on the way up


high tide

Hey blackrock what dates are you going? I will be going March 3-6, my first time going so I don't have any knowledge to drop other then a HELL YEAH this is going to be a blast.

someguy wrote:I'm looking more on information about flying in Baja, places to land, etc. It would also be good to know if landing on a say a beach is ok.

Let me make this more precise since I didn't see anyone say it clearly when I skimmed the thread: landing off airport is illegal in Mexico. Do not do it.

someguy wrote:The flight plan thing seems like just a way for them to collect fees. From what I've been told, you file a flight plan and pay a fee. But you're not tracked and if you don't show up where your're supposed to, no one cares, and no one goes looking for you. [...] That appears to be the only thing a flight plan is used for, a revenue generator. Maybe I'm wrong about that and someone can set me straight.

This is not accurate. At least in the center of the country it's rare that I pay a user fee, but a flight plan is indeed always a requirement. It is a popular misconception that it isn't used for SAR (I used to spread this bad information myself, but I was wrong). You must open the flight plan, just like in the US, which can be difficult in many locations. You are tracked in many situations, but it is accurate to say that the radar coverage is way below what US pilots are used to. You will sometimes not receive a handoff between control areas and, if that happens, finding someone new to talk with can be challenging.

Long story short, flight plans are used for SAR, but the amount of support you will receive is far less than the US and an InReach is highly recommended.

someguy wrote:So how much freedom, or lack thereof do we have to depart from the standard point A to B flights and play along the way?

Don't worry about that. You must operate out of approved air strips, but if you file a flight plan from A to B and decide in the air to instead go to C then do it. If you are talking with ATC, tell them. If you aren't, just land normally and tell them why you switched. I have even occasionally filed a "local" plan (A to A) and landed at B or C because I needed fuel. No one seems to care.

someguy wrote:Take lots of fives. [...] I would say take pesos as well as some US$. [...] Take plenty of smaller denominations because they don't like to make change down there, he prepared for them to round up

Yes, take pesos. You will be in Mexico. I've always thought it really weird that people expect businesses to take dollars. I don't go to the Applebees in Dallas and expect them to take pesos...

Bring two credit cards (in case one gets skimmed), ideally with a chip. If you use an ATM (which I encourage if convenient, better than carrying $40,000 pesos around to fund your whole trip), only use those at banks. Call your banks and tell them you will be in Mexico so that they don't deny legitimate charges.

The change thing is 100% true. I've never had an instance where they rounded up, but I've had plenty where it took 5, 10, 15 minutes while the dude wandered around trying to find some change. So, so, weird. We have a little meatball restaurant and are constantly running out of change. People just hoard it. We ask them if they have 5, 10, 20 or 50 pesos *having seen the money in their hand or wallet* and they lie and say no.

Anyway, yeah, bring change. And hoard it, it will make you feel like you're fitting in.

someguy wrote:Acquire a Mexican insurance policy thru your ins broker, should cost about $100

This could be read two ways, so let me clarify to make sure the OP knows what he needs. It *used* to be the case that you needed to have a Mexican insurance policy. That is, one issued by a Mexican company. This is no longer the case. You simply need an insurance policy with Mexico listed in the coverage area. My policy lists this on page 12, so I have a little star next to that section to make it easier to find and explain to the comandante. In the case of my policy there was no charge for this, I just had to ask.

Since Glidergeek wrote a very long note with tons of great advice, I suspect he already knows this. I just wanted to make sure it was clearly understandable.

someguy wrote:Visa I think is about $27, flight crew does not have to buy a visa Will try and bullshit you though

7 day visas are free for flight crews. Anything longer than that you have to explain to immigration that you want to be processed as a tourist instead of flight crew, pay the fee and get a longer visa.

someguy wrote:Also don't forget to get your radio operators license. They probably wont ask but its simple to get so u might as well

caribbeanskytours.com and baja bush pilots both have excellent checklists of everything you will need. The radio license is the tip of the iceberg in terms of things you need to have that no one will ever ask for (insurance and multi-entry permit will be asked for everywhere). The checklists also tell you the order in which to do things. e.g. does no good to go to senam to file your flight plan if operations and the comandante hasn't signed it yet.

someguy wrote:Should be in the 15 pesos/dollar range.

Peso is 18.67 today and has been rising pretty steadily for a while now. Until your brain gets used to thinking in pesos you can multiple the peso amount by .053 and get a useful approximation of the price in dollars.

corefile wrote:Hey blackrock what dates are you going? I will be going March 3-6, my first time going so I don't have any knowledge to drop other then a HELL YEAH this is going to be a blast.

We leave Feb. 18th for 5 days so i'll let you know how it goes when I get back. Enjoy your trip, I agree Hell Yeah, its going to be fun!

rw2 wrote:

someguy wrote:I'm looking more on information about flying in Baja, places to land, etc. It would also be good to know if landing on a say a beach is ok.

Let me make this more precise since I didn't see anyone say it clearly when I skimmed the thread: landing off airport is illegal in Mexico. Do not do it.

someguy wrote:The flight plan thing seems like just a way for them to collect fees. From what I've been told, you file a flight plan and pay a fee. But you're not tracked and if you don't show up where your're supposed to, no one cares, and no one goes looking for you. [...] That appears to be the only thing a flight plan is used for, a revenue generator. Maybe I'm wrong about that and someone can set me straight.

This is not accurate. At least in the center of the country it's rare that I pay a user fee, but a flight plan is indeed always a requirement. It is a popular misconception that it isn't used for SAR (I used to spread this bad information myself, but I was wrong). You must open the flight plan, just like in the US, which can be difficult in many locations. You are tracked in many situations, but it is accurate to say that the radar coverage is way below what US pilots are used to. You will sometimes not receive a handoff between control areas and, if that happens, finding someone new to talk with can be challenging.

Long story short, flight plans are used for SAR, but the amount of support you will receive is far less than the US and an InReach is highly recommended.

someguy wrote:So how much freedom, or lack thereof do we have to depart from the standard point A to B flights and play along the way?

Don't worry about that. You must operate out of approved air strips, but if you file a flight plan from A to B and decide in the air to instead go to C then do it. If you are talking with ATC, tell them. If you aren't, just land normally and tell them why you switched. I have even occasionally filed a "local" plan (A to A) and landed at B or C because I needed fuel. No one seems to care.

someguy wrote:Take lots of fives. [...] I would say take pesos as well as some US$. [...] Take plenty of smaller denominations because they don't like to make change down there, he prepared for them to round up

Yes, take pesos. You will be in Mexico. I've always thought it really weird that people expect businesses to take dollars. I don't go to the Applebees in Dallas and expect them to take pesos...

Bring two credit cards (in case one gets skimmed), ideally with a chip. If you use an ATM (which I encourage if convenient, better than carrying $40,000 pesos around to fund your whole trip), only use those at banks. Call your banks and tell them you will be in Mexico so that they don't deny legitimate charges.

The change thing is 100% true. I've never had an instance where they rounded up, but I've had plenty where it took 5, 10, 15 minutes while the dude wandered around trying to find some change. So, so, weird. We have a little meatball restaurant and are constantly running out of change. People just hoard it. We ask them if they have 5, 10, 20 or 50 pesos *having seen the money in their hand or wallet* and they lie and say no.

Anyway, yeah, bring change. And hoard it, it will make you feel like you're fitting in.

someguy wrote:Acquire a Mexican insurance policy thru your ins broker, should cost about $100

This could be read two ways, so let me clarify to make sure the OP knows what he needs. It *used* to be the case that you needed to have a Mexican insurance policy. That is, one issued by a Mexican company. This is no longer the case. You simply need an insurance policy with Mexico listed in the coverage area. My policy lists this on page 12, so I have a little star next to that section to make it easier to find and explain to the comandante. In the case of my policy there was no charge for this, I just had to ask.

Since Glidergeek wrote a very long note with tons of great advice, I suspect he already knows this. I just wanted to make sure it was clearly understandable.

someguy wrote:Visa I think is about $27, flight crew does not have to buy a visa Will try and bullshit you though

7 day visas are free for flight crews. Anything longer than that you have to explain to immigration that you want to be processed as a tourist instead of flight crew, pay the fee and get a longer visa.

someguy wrote:Also don't forget to get your radio operators license. They probably wont ask but its simple to get so u might as well

caribbeanskytours.com and baja bush pilots both have excellent checklists of everything you will need. The radio license is the tip of the iceberg in terms of things you need to have that no one will ever ask for (insurance and multi-entry permit will be asked for everywhere). The checklists also tell you the order in which to do things. e.g. does no good to go to senam to file your flight plan if operations and the comandante hasn't signed it yet.

someguy wrote:Should be in the 15 pesos/dollar range.

Peso is 18.67 today and has been rising pretty steadily for a while now. Until your brain gets used to thinking in pesos you can multiple the peso amount by .053 and get a useful approximation of the price in dollars.

rw2,

Thanks for the clarifications and explanations. That is good information and much appreciated.

Baja may have some nuances on the flight plan since we will overnight at least 4 nights before arriving at another controlled airport, which as I understand it, are the only airports from where you can open or close a flight plan? Maybe, that is just open a flight plan; don't know so maybe you can clarify that too. I'm just learning and I don't mind asking dumb questions to get the correct answer.

Good to know it is illegal to land off airport instead of it just being something that is frowned upon. Big difference.

Blackrock, (AKA most of the someguy's above or just Mike)

blackrock wrote:Baja may have some nuances on the flight plan since we will overnight at least 4 nights before arriving at another controlled airport, which as I understand it, are the only airports from where you can open or close a flight plan? Maybe, that is just open a flight plan; don't know so maybe you can clarify that too. I'm just learning and I don't mind asking dumb questions to get the correct answer.

Good to know it is illegal to land off airport instead of it just being something that is frowned upon. Big difference.

Blackrock, (AKA most of the someguy's above or just Mike)

I *think* you are correct that those are the only places you can open/close. Even if that isn't literally true, it is definitely the way things operate as a practical matter. I have heard rumors about additional possibilities, but it is unclear to me if those are available today or possibilities that may one day become available. I'm pretty sure it's the latter given the antique website that senam uses to conduct its business.

You must know this, but since you didn't say so explicitly, you do need to clear customs in Mexico before doing your adventuring to uncontrolled airports.

Once you have cleared into the country, then your summary is right. You wander between uncontrolled airports and when you get to a controlled one again you will need to create and close a flight plan to document your arrival. I suspect a close reading of the regs would state that you need to create flight plans for the intermediate stops also, but having seen the room in Mexico City where the flight plans go to die, I don't see any value in that.

Related to that, uncontrolled fields are required to have you sign in/out of the strip. This form will include your name, license number (you do have that memorized, right? well, you will soon!), pax, airplane info and, most importantly, where you flew in from and where you are flying out to. Basically mini-flight plans but without any SAR implications. My experience is that these forms are required, but not everyone actually complies with that requirement. So don't be surprised if you are greeted by such a form and equally don't bother to track someone down trying to find such a form if no one is pushing it in your face.

Will you have a spanish speaker with you? Even something as simple as filling out the flight plan is easier with a speaker. In the absence of that, I could email you one already filled out as a template and jump on a call to walk you through it.

If you don't have a spanish speaker, many controlled airports have FBOs (ask for a price first) or just random people who will help you for a tip. Mexico is a big-time tipping culture, so don't hesitate to take advantage of that if you think it would be helpful. Flipping a guy $200/mxn to walk you around the airport as a guide and translator is nothing for you, but is a very nice tip for him.

We will be filing our eAPIS's for both the US and Mexico through the Baja Bush Pilots web site so I think we are good there. They state that has to be done at least on hour prior to departure. We will clear Mexican customs in San Felipe and if I can find autofuel will return through SF to file eAPIS back to the US 4 or 5 days later, clearing in Yuma. In the meantime we will hit Alfonsina's and Mulege and one or two others. If I don't have enough fuel to get back to SF, I'll stop in Loretto for fuel. Only controlled airports have fuel and those are either San Felipe or Loretto for us.

At least one along on the trip speaks Spanish so that will certainly be of help. Good idea on tipping someone to help out, if needed.

I sent a PM if you don't mind emailing an example flight plan. I might be able to work through it, but if not would give you a call. I work in Mexico on occasion and other Spanish speaking countries on occasion so always appreciate guidance when learning something new as my Spanish skills are limited. " No hablo espanol, gringo" usually solicits giggles from the gals at the grocery store. Sort of a fun experience when on my own, but much prefer having an interpreter!

blackrock wrote:We will be filing our eAPIS's for both the US and Mexico through the Baja Bush Pilots web site so I think we are good there. They state that has to be done at least on hour prior to departure.

This triggered another memory. You would be best off calling the CBP number in the US before returning to confirm your arrival time and rules for arriving. I've been scolded a couple times for showing up "unannounced" (ignoring the fact that the eapis filing is a pretty clear announcement in my opinion). Some airports require you to wait in the plane. Others have you walking into the building. A phone call (noting the persons name) is a good safety net. Simply: "Hi, N222TF scheduled to arrive at 17:20/MST. Can you please tell me the procedure to follow once I'm on the ground".

rw2 wrote:

blackrock wrote:We will be filing our eAPIS's for both the US and Mexico through the Baja Bush Pilots web site so I think we are good there. They state that has to be done at least on hour prior to departure.

This triggered another memory. You would be best off calling the CBP number in the US before returning to confirm your arrival time and rules for arriving. I've been scolded a couple times for showing up "unannounced" (ignoring the fact that the eapis filing is a pretty clear announcement in my opinion). Some airports require you to wait in the plane. Others have you walking into the building. A phone call (noting the persons name) is a good safety net. Simply: "Hi, N222TF scheduled to arrive at 17:20/MST. Can you please tell me the procedure to follow once I'm on the ground".

I concur, Last time I was down I axed the gentleman that does the FPs if I could call from there. I believe he called Prescott FSS and handed me the phone I verified that they were expecting me.

Thanks rw2 and GG. Once again more excellent ideas from you two to help this trip go smoothly!

rw2 wrote:This triggered another memory. You would be best off calling the CBP number in the US before returning to confirm your arrival time and rules for arriving. I've been scolded a couple times for showing up "unannounced" (ignoring the fact that the eapis filing is a pretty clear announcement in my opinion). Some airports require you to wait in the plane. Others have you walking into the building. A phone call (noting the persons name) is a good safety net. Simply: "Hi, N222TF scheduled to arrive at 17:20/MST. Can you please tell me the procedure to follow once I'm on the ground".

Last time I went to the USA the officer told me that he didn't have access to eapis reports. You must call in advance, and show up on time!

Whiskey on board.

Mexico is a shit hole. There government sucks. I've been down Baja on my motorcycle, cruise ship and airplane. They will never get another dollar from me.

Beautiful wx, people, and scenery. For me that doesn't overcome the negatives. Get in trouble there and your in BIG TROUBLE.

If you could land off airport that would change everything. BUT YOU CANNOT.

Go, have fun, and come home and realize what a special country we live in.

Cheers Rob

BCPilotguy wrote:

rw2 wrote:....I've been scolded a couple times for showing up "unannounced" (ignoring the fact that the eapis filing is a pretty clear announcement in my opinion).....

Last time I went to the USA the officer told me that he didn't have access to eapis reports. You must call in advance, and show up on time!

Like the old days- checking "ADCUS" (advise customs) on the flight plan didn't mean squat.
You still better make sure on your own that they will be there to meet you.

Thanks all, more great advice!

Rob, what the hell happened. Is there a story behind that comment that you can share around the campfire? I'll bring the whiskey!