Pretty common damage from irregular shaped rocks. Mains will kick them up all the time. Takeoff or landing doesn't much matter. It goes with the territory on some strips, 2" plus rocks. plan on re skinning every once in a while.
Best you can do is the cessna boots. I have heard of some fashioning a stainless leading edge guard and putting it under the rubber also. I can't vouch for it but it seems like it should help too.

Some thoughts.
1. Do not practice one wheel, or curving or turning landing on the dirt. You can be skidding and sliding which will throw rocks. Any dirt practice should be as slow as possible, touch down as straight as possible.
2. Be religious about getting the plane rolling with as little throttle as possible and slowly feeding the throttle in, when you have the option. Firewall from a standstill will throw lots of stuff on the tail.
3. Get rid of your Airtrac tires and get Goodyears, less groves in the tread to pick up rocks and throw them at your horizontal.

If you are going to leave the pavement, this is gonna happen. Get those Cessna boots on ASAP.

Guess I'll be an ass and say if it never happened to me it must not be able to happen or someone is telling a tale!!
Worked off gravel and rocks and sand and beach's with 7 Cessna airplanes and did about 3000 hrs a year for awhile, you can tear the shit out of the tail with out hitting anything with the prop. The ding in the Wilga tail is pretty minor and also pretty dam common for anything workin off the pavement.

M6RV6 wrote:Guess I'll be an ass and say if it never happened to me it must not be able to happen or someone is telling a tale!!
Worked off gravel and rocks and sand and beach's with 7 Cessna airplanes and did about 3000 hrs a year for awhile, you can tear the shit out of the tail with out hitting anything with the prop. The ding in the Wilga tail is pretty minor and also pretty dam common for anything workin off the pavement.

I asked a question and everyone told me their life story!

OK I will go with the crowd...

Not preventable 100% He landed at a rocky strip that was unknown and unpublished. There was no way to prevent walking or examining. And it was on touch down! Power at idle?

Carry on men. Sorry to of interrupted.

All he asked for in the OP was info about generic rubber. Not your opinions about all this other BS.

So another scenario, the last touch and go when he was landing on a bit of a turn with his instructor, or he was doing one wheel to the other and keeping it straight down the strip maybe just maybe dislodge the rock, and he was just lucky to hit it on the next landing?
Lot a ways to kick up a rock, maybe he was not the only one using the strip? Maybe the other guy taxied out and then turned to take off and locked his brake up and dislodged the rock, hell maybe even he turned when he started the whole sheebang and it was karma?
Just don't understand the Dissing of someone when your not there? Kinda like all the BS Quinn took when his horizontal got dinged??
He's a new tailwheel pilot, New aircraft owner, Trying to learn and make things work?? Heep on the good thoughts!!
Just my opine and worth absoultely nothing!

akgreg wrote:All he asked for in the OP was info about generic rubber. Not your opinions about all this other BS.

We can't ask question? Yes Sir.

8GCBC,
You didn't start off asking questions. You started off with an unfounded accusation that is NOT in the spirit of this forum.


OP,
I had some minor paint chips in the leading edge of the horizontal stab from some gravel strips. The guys at Chena Marina Air put on some thick 3M tape (I think PVC?) while they were doing some other maintenance for me. Kept any future chips from happening, but I don't think it would have stopped something like that ding you have from happening.

Post up what you end up doing, I'm curious what you come up with!

CamTom12 wrote:8GCBC,
You didn't start off asking questions. You started off with an unfounded accusation that is NOT in the spirit of this forum.


OP,
I had some minor paint chips in the leading edge of the horizontal stab from some gravel strips. The guys at Chena Marina Air put on some thick 3M tape (I think PVC?) while they were doing some other maintenance for me. Kept any future chips from happening, but I don't think it would have stopped something like that ding you have from happening.

Post up what you end up doing, I'm curious what you come up with!

OK. Sorry! I'm on an iPAD and it was short and rude! Sorry! I learned my lesson.

FOD? Almost??

Wow, lots of discussion in the past day since I was on here
The damage happened during my first training landings of the Wilga on the unimproved section of Prineville parallel to runway 33. The landings were either 3-point or wheel T&Gos. I have landed this strip several times in the Cessna 140 w/o issue/damage and decided this strip for my first time practice in the Wilga since gravel is more ground-loop forgiving. I was suprised to see the damage, but my emotions weren't crushed by the damage because as I know that this sort of thing is part of landing off runway. No surprises, no disappointments.

As I am newish to this whole game (flying and the forum), I was disappointed with some of the initial comments and even thought about deleting this account before I entered any further into the rabbit hole. I'm glad some people are able to keep things chilled

Some people have sent me some really good links for products, thank you very much for those!!! I'll post up with new developments, and installations pics.

I will finish off my training on more mellow fields and paved runways until I get some preventable protection on there. My confidence in the Wilga is becoming quite strong. I'm able to execute hard-braking short field wheel landings and am almost able to perform a sub 700' landing roll. With more years, I'm excited to see my skills develop

Best Regards,
Ryan

Don't go anywhere, you're doing awesome and we appreciate your updates.

On the other hand, nothing can ruin a good flying high like the peanut gallery so don't dwell on that stuff. Also, come over to the wet side some time and give me a ride

Ryan,

Your aircraft is an icon here. Glad you like it and are here to share your adventures. I apologize for my ugly thread drift. I was beaten up in emails and online.

Bungled up a horizontal stabilizer once when a hidden rock in a soft/rough field was thrown up from my tire. It seems that I found the only rock on the strip big enough to damage my tail this bad. The protection offered by rubber on the leading edge is certainly limited to gravel and small rocks. It was clearly inadequate for this situation.

Scolopax wrote:Bungled up a horizontal stabilizer once when a hidden rock in a soft/rough field was thrown up from my tire. It seems that I found the only rock on the strip big enough to damage my tail this bad. The protection offered by rubber on the leading edge is certainly limited to gravel and small rocks. It was clearly inadequate for this situation.

Beaver Marsh (S2S) ? I walked it last year and there were way too many rocks (throw on the runway by vandalism). I stop going there due to personal quality control issues. There seems to be a lot of section (8) housing there now.

8GCBC wrote:

Scolopax wrote:Bungled up a horizontal stabilizer once when a hidden rock in a soft/rough field was thrown up from my tire. It seems that I found the only rock on the strip big enough to damage my tail this bad. The protection offered by rubber on the leading edge is certainly limited to gravel and small rocks. It was clearly inadequate for this situation.

Beaver Marsh (S2S) ? I walked it last year and there were way too many rocks (throw on the runway by vandalism). I stop going there due to personal quality control issues. There seems to be a lot of section (8) housing there now.

It was in Idaho.

Scolopax wrote:

8GCBC wrote:

Scolopax wrote:Bungled up a horizontal stabilizer once when a hidden rock in a soft/rough field was thrown up from my tire. It seems that I found the only rock on the strip big enough to damage my tail this bad. The protection offered by rubber on the leading edge is certainly limited to gravel and small rocks. It was clearly inadequate for this situation.

Beaver Marsh (S2S) ? I walked it last year and there were way too many rocks (throw on the runway by vandalism). I stop going there due to personal quality control issues. There seems to be a lot of section (8) housing there now.

It was in Idaho.

Ferry permit or local mechanic? I think I known what the answer is

The FSDO here says if the metal is torn on a stressed skin air foil then, no ferry permit. We had a little tear in the leading edge of a part 91 aircraft, it was a "no fly" per FAA. I believe it was then a field repair on the ramp, not in the shop. Hawaii is not Alaska.

Dings will happen no matter what. The big damage happens when your tires kick up rocks and your tail feathers smack into them, not when rocks shoot backwards from prop blast while you're at low speed. It's just like rock chips on your windshield...it's your speed that does the damage, not the rocks' speed.

I use 3M tape on my leading edges and it offers some protection against the small stuff. Whatever you use give a whole lot of though to whether it will stay attached and what will happen if part of it comes loose. Scenarios range from nothing, to the terror of hearing something banging around violently and not knowing what it is, to actual interference with control surfaces. I'm not sure I'd use a strip of rubber back there just for those reasons.

Several dozen times a year I use a airstrip that's nothing but churned up rocks and gravel...no adhesion or compaction to speak of, and here's some things I've found that help (a little).

Slick tires. Grooved tires are HELL on the tail feathers. They aren't very good for the underside of your wings and flaps, either. The expansion and contraction of the tire as it rolls across the ground makes the grooves pick up rocks and throw them out, over and over and over again. If you are absolutely stuck with grooved tires select tires with the fewest grooves and then cut the grooves out so they make a V rather than a U. They make special tire cutting tools for this but I've done it with a sharp wood chisel. Going to Goodyear 26's did more to reduce rock strikes than anything else I've done.

Land with full flaps, as slow as possible, and keep the tail up as long as is reasonable, and keep it absolutely straight. There's more crap in the air for your tail to plow through closer to the ground, and a side load will kick up larger rocks than will normally get kicked up otherwise.

The big stuff kicks up when your non-rotating tires first touch ground. If practical and safe, try to touch down feather-light, even if it eats up more runway. The peanut gallery at the airstrip might want to see your shortest landing, but they won't pitch in anything for new sheet metal and paint, so screw 'em. Prop blast is irrelevant compared to what your tires are doing, so don't give a second thought to smoothing it out with power if you need to.

Keeping your tires rolling straight and smooth on take-off is also important, especially when you're almost flying. A little side load can kick up rocks and you're going plenty fast enough to do damage. The same thing can happen if you try to lift off too early and then sink back down and touch a tire.

A gradual application of power on take-off helps a lot of things, tail feathers included.

Finally, don't think too much about it. Reducing rock damage is pretty low on the matrix of things a pilot should be thinking about on take-off and landing. Now that you've got your first good ding the next ones won't bother you nearly as much.

8GCBC wrote: Ferry permit or local mechanic? I think I known what the answer is

I'll tell you the whole story when we meet up sometime.

Scolopax wrote:

8GCBC wrote: Ferry permit or local mechanic? I think I known what the answer is

I'll tell you the whole story when we meet up sometime.

I've been currious what had you out of commission recently Jake. And with all of the re-skinning recommendations you've added to other threads my imagination was running a little wild. The pictures speak a thousands words. Count me in on the story when you get around to sharing it. I have one of my own to share in return.

Dillon, keep the perspective you have regarding the forum and you'll be around for a long time to enjoy some good entertainment and information And I'll vouch for Ted. He's every bit as quirky as the rest of us (more?? ), but certainly a nice guy.

Good luck with the tape. They'll definately make a difference for you. Those are some impressive dings.

CW