Seems like this topic has been covered a hundred times but I couldn't find a thread that answered my questions.

As most of you know I'm reluctantly going to install a EFIS in my BH. I still have a while before I'm going to buy anything but I'm trying to plan ahead so I'm ready to pull the trigger when the time comes. I don't want a displace that has synthetic vision, a moving map and a buch of other stuff. The Garmix G3X looks nice and so does the Dynon SkyView but they both have tons of features I don't want and would never keep updated so why pay for them. The Dynon FlightDeck D180 is pretty much exactly what I want but I worry about how much longer Dynon will support it. In this digital age you can't expect a company to support a design forever; seems like the D-180s days are numbered.

All I really want is a glass display of flight instruments required for IFR flying.

Hi Whee,

I was in a very similar space to you when I started out. I wanted light, simple glass panel avionics. So the D100 series was appealing.

Later, I was told the latest range of Dynon product can be configured to show only the more basic displays. This is a better solution. I can't speak for other makes of avionics.

Support for the older D100 series products will be phased out, eventually. They already stopped releasing new features years ago. Yes the older avionics will still work 100%, and I've never done an update either... but all the newest and most helpful developments (like cheap, cheap Mode S Txpdr, ADSB Out) are only compatible with the newer line of Skyview products. There is close to zero price advantage with the older gear, too. Once you factor in buying a competitor's Txpdr, the necessary encoder, etc. it looks to be a very even playing field. Also remember those competitor products can't display on the touch-screen either, so you have multiple (redundant) user interfaces which you are paying for, and clutter the panel (although some clutter is nice?).

I guess what I am saying is basically this -
It's easier to have access to functionality, and not use it; than discover you want functionality, and not have access to it.

I would have gone a different way, had I been buying avionics knowing what I know today.

.... Now, everyone ignore my attempt to derail the OPs question before it even got one answer like he wanted!

Whee, for all the stuff out there?? I fly 90% of what I do with an Ipad mini!!
Have a 430 and a 696 in a gismo in the dash in my 210 and 2 trips back and forth to AK and used the 430 for the radio!! I pad for everything else, 696 to back it up?!
Yes also the Synthetic vision on a split screen!
Would not waste the money on all the rest!
My $.02

I've been thinking about pulling the DG & horizon & vacuum system out of my C180 and installing a "pocket" Dynon D2. It has a gps receiver & wifi / Bluetooth or someother kind of voodoo to piggyback the gps signal into an ipad. FYI this will be for VFR-only (aka "just in case") use in my case.

I really like the D2 and have been impressed with the performance, especially since my vacuum horizon always seems to develop a 15 degree list about the time I need it

But, I understood that it could not be used as a primary since it is not fixed in the panel, otherwise I would love to do away with the steam gages. Like George, I use primarily my Garmin 596 and mini ipad with foreflight and stratus anymore.

Sorry, more drift, but I am interested in where you are going with this Whee.

slowhawk wrote:I really like the D2 and have been impressed with the performance, especially since my vacuum horizon always seems to develop a 15 degree list about the time I need it
But, I understood that it could not be used as a primary since it is not fixed in the panel, otherwise I would love to do away with the steam gages. Like George, I use primarily my Garmin 596 and mini ipad with foreflight and stratus anymore.....

"Primary" in this case would only be for IFR flight, eh?
A Garmin 596 & ipad with apps isn't primary either.
Both that setup & the pocket Dynon are great, but only legal for VFR.
Whee, do you have an instrument ticket, and do you foresee much if any IFR flying in the future for you in your Bearhawk?

I know you're experimental, Whee, but for us certified folks, it looks like the FAA is making it easier to go eletric/electronic without needing a backup AI:

http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guida ... -23-08.pdf

Basically, as I understand it we can now replace a primary AI with an electronic version as a minor alteration, as long as it has a battery backup independent of the main aircraft battery.

Makes perfect sense, since the new digital AI's are much less failure prone than the old vacuum-powered ones.

.

glacier wrote:This policy statement seems to sidestep the TSO question. Plenty of high quality non-TSO'ed units out there, good enough for official IFR in non-certified planes. Installation of such units into the types of certified aircraft targeted by this statement via the minor modification process would be nice.

Read all the Advisory Circulars they cite in there. The term "direct replacement" would certainly suggest that if you're replacing a TSOd steam gauge with an electronic instrument, that instrument is going to have to be TSOd as well.

No side steps here that I can see, though this is a good policy.....just doesn't go far enough.

MTV

Battson, I hoped you would answer because I know you have the D-100 series in your BH. Your answer was pretty much what I expected it to be though I'm not sure I care about all the xponder ADSB-out stuff. I will if I fly IFR but for my VFR flying I won't ever need it...I just don't fly in airspace that will require it.

I hear what you are saying M6RV6 and for VFR I totally agree.

slowhawk wrote:I am interested in where you are going with this Whee.

I'm interested to see where I'm going with it also.

hotrod180 wrote:"Primary" in this case would only be for IFR flight, eh?
A Garmin 596 & ipad with apps isn't primary either.
Both that setup & the pocket Dynon are great, but only legal for VFR.
Whee, do you have an instrument ticket, and do you foresee much if any IFR flying in the future for you in your Bearhawk?

The D2 looks great but I just couldn't trust it as my only instrument while in the clouds. I'm not a instrument pilot but I plan to get rated a couple years after I finish building the BH. I don't plan to do any en route IMC flying; I just want to be able to punch a layer when arriving or departing.

Oregon180 wrote:I know you're experimental, Whee, but for us certified folks, it looks like the FAA is making it easier to go eletric/electronic without needing a backup AI:

http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guida ... -23-08.pdf

Great info! The AI is the main reason I'll be putting a EFIS in my plane.

whee wrote:Great info! The AI is the main reason I'll be putting a EFIS in my plane.

If that's the only reason you're looking at glass, I've got a Trutrak ADI in mine. Works very well. I've flown some hood on it and I feel like I'd trust it in the clouds.

I think I'm going to upgrade to glass eventually in order to pick up an HSI/waas gps for IFR work. Not enough panel space to add them now in round gauges.

I went back and forth on what panel I wanted between GRT, MGL, and Garmin G3X. I picked the MGL. The garmin seems like a solid unit, but for the same features of the other 2, it was almost double the price. The MGL offered me something else that none of the others do...the ability to make each screen exactly as I want it. They have a simulator you download and you are able to build the screens that you want to see. It is preloaded with 6 screens that pretty much have it all, but there were a few things I wanted to customize. The price was awesome, and they make everything easy to purchase. I didn't even look at Dynon just for the sheer fact that they seem to split everything up and nickel and dime you (or hundreds of dollars) for each individual piece of equipment. GRT looked like a solid panel, but seems a bit dated and I haven't seen any changes since I started looking at panels a few years ago. To me, it looked like they found a good thing and stagnated on it. I want someone who will advance with the times and give me options down the road. That's my spiel. I couldn't be happier with my decision after flying up to the smoky mountains with it this past weekend.

whee wrote:"... though I'm not sure I care about all the xponder ADSB-out stuff. I will if I fly IFR but for my VFR flying I won't ever need it...I just don't fly in airspace that will require it."

"... I'm not a instrument pilot but I plan to get rated a couple years after I finish building the BH. I don't plan to do any en route IMC flying; I just want to be able to punch a layer when arriving or departing."

Sounds like you really do care about xponder ADSB-out stuff, unless you're planning on renting for training and never filing IFR in the Bearhawk.

Timberwolf wrote:I went back and forth on what panel I wanted between GRT, MGL, and Garmin G3X. I picked the MGL.

DId you go with the 'Lite' model or the regulare model? I have been thinking of updating the panel on the RANS and simplify things.

Timberwolf wrote:.... GRT looked like a solid panel, but seems a bit dated and I haven't seen any changes since I started looking at panels a few years ago. To me, it looked like they found a good thing and stagnated on it. I want someone who will advance with the times and give me options down the road.....

The flip side of that is that maybe down the road the cutting-edge outfit might obsolete your trusty equipment & quit supporting it, in favor of their newest latest & greatest stuff. Bummer to HAVE to update when you're happy with the old stuff. Microsoft did this with windows, everyone I know liked XP but they went to 7 & 8 and now Vista-- XP is long gone.

CamTom12 wrote:

whee wrote:Great info! The AI is the main reason I'll be putting a EFIS in my plane.

If that's the only reason you're looking at glass, I've got a Trutrak ADI in mine. Works very well. I've flown some hood on it and I feel like I'd trust it in the clouds.

I think I'm going to upgrade to glass eventually in order to pick up an HSI/waas gps for IFR work. Not enough panel space to add them now in round gauges.

The AI is the main thing I want to add as far as flight instruments go but figure I'll want an HSI for IFR flying and I want an engine monitor so it makes financial sense to buy a box that does it all.

Timberwolf wrote:I went back and forth on what panel I wanted between GRT, MGL, and Garmin G3X. I picked the MGL.

Thanks Timberwolf. I gave MGL a brief look then moved on. I'll go back and have another look.

marcusofcotton wrote:

whee wrote:"... though I'm not sure I care about all the xponder ADSB-out stuff. I will if I fly IFR but for my VFR flying I won't ever need it...I just don't fly in airspace that will require it."

"... I'm not a instrument pilot but I plan to get rated a couple years after I finish building the BH. I don't plan to do any en route IMC flying; I just want to be able to punch a layer when arriving or departing."

Sounds like you really do care about xponder ADSB-out stuff, unless you're planning on renting for training and never filing IFR in the Bearhawk.

I thought the same as I was typing that post. The deal is as a VFR pilot I don't have any desire to fly where I'll need a xponder or ADSB-out. I do want to get my instrument rating and at that point I will need the xponder and ADSB gear but do I spend the thousands now to equip the plane in hopes that I'll use the equipment? Adding the gear now doesn't make sense to me. So I guess I do care but not right now.

hotrod180 wrote:

Timberwolf wrote:.... GRT looked like a solid panel, but seems a bit dated and I haven't seen any changes since I started looking at panels a few years ago. To me, it looked like they found a good thing and stagnated on it. I want someone who will advance with the times and give me options down the road.....

The flip side of that is that maybe down the road the cutting-edge outfit might obsolete your trusty equipment & quit supporting it, in favor of their newest latest & greatest stuff. Bummer to HAVE to update when you're happy with the old stuff. Microsoft did this with windows, everyone I know liked XP but they went to 7 & 8 and now Vista-- XP is long gone.

This is exactly what I'm concerned about. I really like the iLevil concept, using a ADAHARS module connected to a tablet, but because iLevil is wireless I could never trust it in the clouds.

hotrod180 wrote:I've been thinking about pulling the DG & horizon & vacuum system out of my C180 and installing a "pocket" Dynon D2. It has a gps receiver & wifi / Bluetooth or someother kind of voodoo to piggyback the gps signal into an ipad. FYI this will be for VFR-only (aka "just in case") use in my case.

My VFR-only combo would be the Dynon D2 along with my old-school G-196 for navigating, in addition to my steam gauge airspeed, turn coord, alt, & VSI.
I might some day get a tablet/pad computer with a sectional-based moving map GPS app, but I'm in no hurry. The 196 does just fine.

Whee - maybe make a list of your must have features and approach it that way. You probably have, but didn't see that you posted here. Also, do you have a target budget or budget ceiling?

Sorry - re-read your post and you kind of do state your requirements. I had not really thought that the D180 would stop being supported. We have one in our RV8 and its a great instrument.

I have not flown behind the GRT Horizon HX, but they have been around a while and have a great reputation (at least for their trusty engine monitor). I think synthetic is an option, but also can just do basic AH.
http://www.grtavionics.com/horizonhx.html

All that said, and I know you said the Garmin had some features you don't want, but the G3X you would love period.