I ground looped my tail dragger dragger. I let go of it for just a moment taking it to the 185 and around she went (yes there was a crosswind). Apparently I have to stay on top of this too when it's moving. You know looking at it, two wheels up front, center of gravity aft of the front wheels, and a tail wheel, guess I should have seen it comng.

Barnstormer wrote:I ground looped my tail dragger dragger. I let go of it for just a moment taking it to the 185 and around she went (yes there was a crosswind). Apparently I have to stay on top of this too when it's moving. You know looking at it, two wheels up front, center of gravity aft of the front wheels, and a tail wheel, guess I should have seen it comng.

Yeah, those cross winds can be brutal sometimes.

Oh crap Phil... Everything ok?! Do any damage? Never let her go till shes tied down in the barn.

Barnstormer wrote:I ground looped my tail dragger dragger. I let go of it for just a moment taking it to the 185 and around she went (yes there was a crosswind). Apparently I have to stay on top of this too when it's moving. You know looking at it, two wheels up front, center of gravity aft of the front wheels, and a tail wheel, guess I should have seen it comng.

Heh heh... if I read this right, you're saying you groundlooped your tow motor?

Zzz,

Yep ground looped my tug. Hope my insurance doesn't go up.

Getting back to my hangar from the main runway requires a left hand up-hill turn from downwind to crosswind. It is a guaranteed ground loop unless I'm very aware and ready to catch it.

Wow. I feel like an idiot.

Serious question then - can you ground loop under full power (like turning a corner during the T/O roll) without being completely inept about it; or is it really only possible to ground loop with power off / limited power during the slow-down phase of the landing roll / taxiing?

Battson wrote:Serious question then - can you ground loop under full power (like turning a corner during the T/O roll) without being completely inept about it; or is it really only possible to ground loop with power off / limited power during the slow-down phase of the landing roll / taxiing?

Serious answer. Yes, if low time tail wheel experience, not necessarily inept. That was my experience. I got to build my kitfox a second time. Very expensive lesson.

Battson wrote:Serious question then - can you ground loop under full power (like turning a corner during the T/O roll) without being completely inept about it; or is it really only possible to ground loop with power off / limited power during the slow-down phase of the landing roll / taxiing?

Totally. Full power gets you a few things: 1) Airflow over the control surfaces, 2) an increasing control authority, but also 3) some P-factor. If you're in a crosswind from the left, early in the roll, full power with an O-540 that P-factor and rudder inattentiveness can swing you around. Never done it but I know some who have.

Having control authority doesn't get you out of trouble on its own, you can still go around just because the CG departing the track is no longer manageable by control input, or overcorrection actually compounds the directional wackiness.

Any power/pitch approach to touchdown helps for this very reason. Lots of control to touchdown. Whether three point or wheel, however, it is much less expensive to slow down before touchdown. I have always allowed students to manipulate the controls almost all the time. There is a point where a mistake cannot be caught and there will be a ground loop. By requiring the hover in ground effect or apparent rate of closure over obstacles, they are slow enough that only the first few feet of roll can cause a damaging ground loop. If the wing tip doesn't touch, it is just embarrassing. It is not damaging. Going fast and the wing touches, damage. Going slow the wing does not touch.

blackrock wrote:Getting back to my hangar from the main runway requires a left hand up-hill turn from downwind to crosswind. It is a guaranteed ground loop unless I'm very aware and ready to catch it.

I know the feeling. I think entering or leaving that region of reverse control with wind suddenly gusting down your backside or up and under an exposed wing gets less respect than it deserves. Its very hard on pilots to have to relearn that sense of false security that was there only moments before it happened. Humility may account for the low number of responses to this post and Barnstormer, I hope the damage was limited mostly to the lesson instead of the aircraft.

dirtstrip wrote:

blackrock wrote:Getting back to my hangar from the main runway requires a left hand up-hill turn from downwind to crosswind. It is a guaranteed ground loop unless I'm very aware and ready to catch it.

I know the feeling. I think entering or leaving that region of reverse control with wind suddenly gusting down your backside or up and under an exposed wing gets less respect than it deserves. Its very hard on pilots to have to relearn that sense of false security that was there only moments before it happened. Humility may account for the low number of responses to this post and Barnstormer, I hope the damage was limited mostly to the lesson instead of the aircraft.

I would tell my stories, but I never ground looped a tug, only the plane that it sometimes tows.. I was drunk and ground looped a fork lift once though does that count?? I groundlooped my truck at 80+ one time.. that was exciting!

I ground looped a stand up style Lektro tug one time. Nothing was attached but I thought I would be super cool and go as fast as I could to go retrieve a plane. Rounded a corner and ......whoooop, there it is! And of course everyone was out at the airport that day.

One cool morning during a scheduled lesson there was a nice, thick fog bank that hugged the area. My instructor said we were to continue for the day. Surprised, I said OK what/ Wash the Cub? No.....out in the unpopulated area of the tie-downs and smooth pavement we began some strange lessons. We would move the plane a bit forward with a little power and work with ground handling and turns. Keeping my secrets taught...we ground looped on purpose several times. Mind you this was just enough power and speed to let the onset come about. This taught me valuable lessons on feeling the plane and knowing what it will do...and when. I am grateful to my instructor....he drilled into me a lifetime of lesson's learned. The next lesson was tracking down the runway with him on the throttle! Sometimes we just went around...sometimes just to the other end....with crosswind and all. I miss those days and that summer.