the kid wants to solo on her 16th birthday.

recommendations for online ground school? that doesn't involve RAIM predictions, cat III procedures, etc. i'd prefer her learn things like stall mechanics, "i-am-a-drop-of-fuel-follow-me-from-tank-to-exhaust" and weather.

syllabus recommendations? the stuff i find online feels ... contrived and made way more complex than it should be.

anyone have advice for teaching your own kid?

King school would by my first easy choice

Find an instructor who will teach her to fly first and cover ground school later for the written. An ATP is not required to solo.

ok -- so a vote for King School

anyone tried "The Finer Points"? seems pricey but maybe not just a memorize situation?

Contact -- yes sir, I was thinking of mostly teaching her myself, although that might be a touch nuts (?). I was trying to be silly about the RAIM predictions. When I was scoping out online G/S options a lot of the material seemed to be oriented towards instrument and controlled airspace flying, with (in my opinion) not enough attention paid to the VERY basics (like zoom reserve...). So I was just trying to test out the waters and see if anyone had tried to really teach the basics in what most folks on here would probably consider to be an "old school and correct way".

I'm not concerned about the testing part for eventual PPL, she could pass that just memorizing the answer bank for 5 hours (not sure who's actual kid she is but they must be smart).

Good thinking on PPL delay. As a former public school teacher I am insulted by a written test that retains most missed questions. The educational error of that thinking is evident in that the same mistake is not possible with the instrument written. Confusing, poorly constructed questions about destination minimums, decision height, etc. would be dangerous. Why they can't understand the same danger concerning stick and rudder skills in unfathomable.

A little unsolicited thinking out loud here... it's hard to not project as a father. Whether or not it's a good idea to teach your own kid to fly probably comes down to your teacher/student relationship with your daughter.

My kids are only 5 and 7 but at times the instructional receptiveness and the ease with which they lose patience and basically tell me to get lost makes it seem like a good idea to delegate certain vocational lessons. I've watched them behave like angels and remain focused on a teacher when I know with me they'd be trying to climb onto my head. Daddy is just a different world.

I assume that at 15, your kid wanting to solo means she's flown with you a lot and has a history of good hands-on practical experience. I think I would still delegate to a more formal instructional relationship with a CFi who will objectively evaluate her readiness with both aircraft handling and aeronautical knowledge.

Some of the stuff that seems contrived I view as kind of a conceptual gatekeeper. We talking regs or physics? I can see the former not being as important but the latter is important to comprehend fully.

Been thinking about starting my commercial and instrument next summer and I've been looking for a study program too with a good iPad support. Everyone says Sheppard Air is the best for knowledge exam study, but I'm not sure it's as good for true teaching.

I'd check out this Jepp part 61 program, all electronic: https://shop.jeppesen.com/All-Products/ ... 3367-63335

On the other hand I do think it's nice to have real, tangible, paper books for studying. Especially since it's so easy to get distracted by notifications on a mobile device.

I did the Machado ground school on my Ipad, it was very thorough program. It worked well for me as I could download it all to the Ipad and use it offline. But I wouldn't suggest it for a teen. He's very corny, like Henny Youngman jokes corny. The quizzes are good and very extensive. I was 60 and did my ground school all on my own, passed with a 96 but I was motivated.

The Finer points is a more modern version, adding video to help reinforce the lessons. It also helps those that learn in different ways. It also brings back questions agains if you missed them on the quizzes. You can download a trial version to try for free. His videos are very educational too, he's been doing them for years. I think this one would be good for a teen, but it isn't cheap.

Checkride prep is currently doing a free online video ground school, they do it live a few nights a week. I think they're on week 5 right now. They do the course a few times a year and they follow the Machado training. The online content is on their site and youtube while the class is in session. Here's a link to the youtube, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=imeEkfajqs8. If you're watching live you can ask questions.

The school I trained at uses the King School, it works well too.

I'd suggest some flying too before worrying about the knowledge test, it helped reinforce the info for me. You just have to pass the test before your checkride.

I used the King school. It was fine but very repetitive. It's good for the practice exams if nothing else.

I found Bold Method to be a very effective learning tool for Airspace / VFR Wx.

No requirement to complete or start on-line GS before solo.

Get the medical done, and Student Lic about 2 mo. before her 16th BD. That's about the earliest you can do IACRA. Then be patient, it'll show up about 2 days before her birthday. Get the pre-solo written done too. If it all comes together, hope for good weather and all the requirements met.

Once that part is done, you'll be headed down to DMV to get the Driver Lic. All in all, a very busy day. Enjoy it !

Z - Sheppard air - 5 stars for what it is -- memorize and pass the faa tests. used it for all mine, commercial, atp and mil->civilian instructor test.

Z - yeah, I wouldn't try this w/ my other daughter. But this one I have taught to dive and she'll be getting her OUPV six pack when she hits 18 (she works at a boat rental place now delivering stuff up to about 30' all around the keys, solo). We seem to be able to teach and learn together -- plus she's my flying buddy so I either teach her or ... or I'm a jerk basically?

Z - "conceptual gatekeeper" -- I really like that phrase and I'm thinking about it.

The Bold Method guy seems ok and he definitely hits the way the kids learn these days. Once in a while I get a little bone in my craw with a phrase or two (no, you shouldn't just go plugging right through a MOA that's unknown to you... rrrrr) --- but on the whole, seems solid.

I'm on the Final Points thing --- my kid would like that. she's a math head -- thanks for that tip.

48Stinson -- thank you sir -- that is exactly what I needed. While I may be technically "qualified", I have never done this basic level flight instruction, let alone the paperwork that goes with it. That helps a bunch. I have some buddies who are CFI's so I'm a need to get them to walk me through this.

Yeah --- my thought is that I will teach her to fly like I taught her to boat and then get a few other folks to fly w/ her and take a look -- solo her for the confidence -- then see if she wants to finish out a private. if she does then I'm a double down w/ her and force an instrument on the backside.

Thanks for the thoughts so far, very helpful as usual.

I used the Sportys’s online ground school and got a paper copies of the PHAK and FAR/AIM to read. If one of my kids wants to learn to fly, I’ll have them read the book(s), watch the videos, and send them to the instructor I’m using for logged training, evaluation, and sign offs.

Sheppard doesn't do private - only the advanced ratings. It is NOT a ground school - just a memorization method for passing the test which is very valuable and highly recommended for the post-private ratings should she ever want to get there.

https://www.sheppardair.com/private.htm

There is nothing as soul sucking as these ground schools. All of them - because they are also trying to teach to pass the test - just in a less efficient way. I did the king version for private and instrument. I also did MzeroA for private - much better but a lot of the same. For commercial I also did fly8ma, which I thought was horrible and will not recommend. I just cannot imagine expecting John and Martha King to keep a teenager's interest.

I work at a glider school towing - and I see a bunch of 15-16 yo kids pushed by their parents to fly and solo and get their check rides on their respective birthdays. Dare I say most of them aren't ready everyone can see it in their eyes but the parent. Your kid may be special - or they may be normal. Let it happen when she's ready. If you can let her fly for fun first that's great. When she's ready for the bs, let her find her own energy. So +1 for not projecting. Also good on you for providing the opportunity - your daughter is very lucky.

My 16 yo son will tell you he wants to be a pilot if you ask him around the camp fire - but he hasn't really put any real energy into it. I'm not forcing it. Every kid is different - just giving some examples. We fly and go camping and keep it fun. If he want's to take the yoke great, also great if he just wants to snooze while I do pilot shit.

soyAnarchisto wrote:Sheppard doesn't do private - only the advanced ratings. It is NOT a ground school - just a memorization method for passing the test which is very valuable and highly recommended for the post-private ratings should she ever want to get there.

https://www.sheppardair.com/private.htm

There is nothing as soul sucking as these ground schools. All of them - because they are also trying to teach to pass the test - just in a less efficient way. I did the king version for private and instrument. I also did MzeroA for private - much better but a lot of the same. For commercial I also did fly8ma, which I thought was horrible and will not recommend. I just cannot imagine expecting John and Martha King to keep a teenager's interest.

I work at a glider school towing - and I see a bunch of 15-16 yo kids pushed by their parents to fly and solo and get their check rides on their respective birthdays. Dare I say most of them aren't ready everyone can see it in their eyes but the parent. Your kid may be special - or they may be normal. Let it happen when she's ready. If you can let her fly for fun first that's great. When she's ready for the bs, let her find her own energy. So +1 for not projecting. Also good on you for providing the opportunity - your daughter is very lucky.

My 16 yo son will tell you he wants to be a pilot if you ask him around the camp fire - but he hasn't really put any real energy into it. I'm not forcing it. Every kid is different - just giving some examples. We fly and go camping and keep it fun. If he want's to take the yoke great, also great if he just wants to snooze while I do pilot shit.

That too

I CFIed a little rich kid once, it was pointless, more or less a video game for him, never went anywhere

If you have to sugar cost the ground for them to get into it, they just ain’t that into it

thanks very much for the thoughts, this has been very helpful. I didn't learn to fly this way so it's all a bit of a crap shoot to me.

the kid is a nerd. she will take whatever thread I give her and pull it. but I gave her Stick and Rudder and the Backcountry Bible ---- those (to me) seem the most relevant to the fun kind of flying she and I do. she's read those, she has questions, I answer them. more questions. honestly -- the "teaching her stuff" is going great. she's just curious and we fly together a lot.

I could absolutely tell her, "do this online thing" and she'd crush it in a week. but I feel like that might actually put nonsense in her head ----- does that make any sense? The fact that you go VFR again on top of class A over 60'k (or is it 65'k?) --- fun, but not super relevant most of the time. And when it IS relevant you are probably in a situation where someone will remind you of the fact. Stuff like that. Balloons do not always HAVE technical right of way ... but you would do well to just be chill and GIVE it to them...

So I guess I'm looking for the ground school that will do the least amount of damage. yes, there is administrivia in aviation ground school. yes, some of that could be important someday, somehow and is at least tangentially relevant. some of it is on the test. all of that true. but for heavens sake, some of the ground schools seem to spend MORE time on this administrivia than just basic real flying stuff. I don't want her walking away from some kind of ground school with her priorities of knowledge scrambled. Does that makes sense?

I think maybe we'll just stick w/ Stick and Rudder, Jay Baldwin, and Backcountry Bible until she solo's. Keep it simple, let it be fun, not stick some of this other junk in her head. After she is confident and flying around on her own if she wants to pursue a private we can then feed in some of this other stuff.

I do think that giving her a syllabus would be good. I'm going to work on that. We did that for her "Boating checkout w/ Dad and Uncle" and she responded well to that. I think it also instills confidence.

So. Not to twist the thread -- but there is SO much experience here --- I'm gonna start w/ the T-34 syllabus from 1997 and add and subtract from there. (not kidding).

Stuff that I should stick in there? Some of the acro ain't gonna work in my plane and I think the photo shoot stuff we do w/ a broski w/ a cub will probably serve for the "formation" part (no real need to teach anything closer than say 400' but some level of comfort here is potentially appropriate ?). Re-work of the landing stuff towards backcountry instead of carrier, probably good for both of us. All the power out stuff is about the same. Gonna have to grab a 172 or cub for stall/spin work I think, my plane doesn't stall right. I guess I'm a little torn on nav stuff. on one hand "clock, chart, ground" is super, and I'll teach that ---- but I think that an emphasis on GPS nav (handhelds, iPad) probably makes sense --- a loose familiarity w/ "plates" of any flavor is probably enough (?). VFR Sectional is probably the most important piece here. "Systems" piece by piece.

She's used to my brief/do/debrief format -- that part should be easy enough.

I'm a start working something up. Definitely taking inputs.

flipfloplife wrote:... I gave her Stick and Rudder and the Backcountry Bible ---- those (to me) seem the most relevant to the fun kind of flying she and I do. .....

More info on "The Backcountry Bible" please--
I googled it but got nothing.

sorry - mountain flying bible revised - sparky imeson. have paper book form is only way i could find it. unbelievably good. for me at least as i am transitioning to off airport flying (well private flying in general). absolutely great, real world, practical stuff. that one and jay baldwins book for me have done great work on perspective shift.

This is a good one, covers aerodynamics basics to advanced, all the way to turbines, also some good DR and lost nav stuff

Good reference and well written, there is a us and a Canada edition though


https://www.amazon.com/Ground-Up-28th-Ed/dp/0968039057


The other book I like, but might be a little advanced for her is everything explained for the professional pilot (they have a indexed book on the apple store for iPads too)

93k -- thanks for that -- bought both.

Flipfloplife,

If the written and school solution is a ways off, do you have "Safe Maneuvering Flight Techniques?" The signature thing at the bottom here doesn't work anymore.

Jim