I know this place is for airplane flying (mostly), but we're talking backcountry flying here, and helicopters can do that also. I have a buddy who has a Robinson R44 Raven II and he wants to fly the Idaho backcountry strips with it. Considering high DA and his and his wife's camping gear, he asked me if I thought it could be done safely. Now, I'm a helicopter pilot, but I fly turbine choppers usually, so I didn't know what to say other than "let me ask some people that might know".

Does anyone know of guys doing this with an R44?? Can it be done safely? I would think that carrying half tanks, operating early or late in the day, and not loading it too heavily, it should be OK. Any comments?

Eduardo

I have no helicopter experience to think of. But fuel may be about the only issue. As long as they stay near a fuel source, I'd say their good. I think a heicopter in the backcountry would be awesome! There's endless meadows, ridge tops, small lakes and streams to set down at and enjoy the solitude.

I've had my Enstrom 280C into some of the backcountry strips....camped at JC.... No problems what so ever. Fuel management is the only major concern with limited places to fuel. I'd say do it, and enjoy!

Sounds like lots of fun... As long as one does proper performance planing.

Start with the "Out Of Ground Effect" hover chart (HOGE). See what weight you can hover OGE with at say 5000ft and 25c. That will give you a base line for your loading. Then move to the "In Ground Effect Charts" for specified locations. Remember Tall grass dissipates ground effect for hovering helicopters. Just plan it out and should be fine. It's been 13 years since I've flown an R44 but from what I remember that load should work. When unsure just pull into an HOGE at a safe altitude and see if she will hover and what power is required. Do that before you commit to landing and there will be no surprises.

As for fuel I don't see a big problem. The R44 has a good cruise speed. You will just have a little less to play with when you get there.

As for meadows and ridge tops understand its illegal to land on USFS land (in the lower 48) unless you have prior permission or its a designated landing site. Don't get caught.



Waterboy

Thanks for the responses guys. I also have not flown an R44 till recently, and though coming from turbine choppers was pleasantly surprised at the power of the Raven II. I have no doubt it can be done. Just wondering if anyone has had any personal experience or know of someone who has.

The other adventure is the flight from El Salvador to Idaho and back. I'll start my flight planning to see how I minimize the stops in Mexico.

Eduardo

Waterboy wrote: its illegal to land on USFS land (in the lower 48) unless you have prior permission

No shit? How come? USFS is all private land? That is really strange (to me).
Anybody know why??

NimpoCub wrote:

Waterboy wrote: its illegal to land on USFS land (in the lower 48) unless you have prior permission

No shit? How come? USFS is all private land? That is really strange (to me).
Anybody know why??

Aren't there different Regs for Helicopters? Maybe except "Wilderness Area" and "Wilderness Study Area", I thought they can land almost anywhere

On public lands administered by the US Forest Service, US Fish and Wildlife Service, or National Park Service you cannot land without prior permission. See below which is quoted from the warning that appears on every sectional chart:

REGULATIONS REGARDING FLIGHTS OVER CHARTED NATIONAL PARK SERVICE AREAS,
U.S. FISH AND WILDLIFE SERVICE AREAS, AND U.S. FOREST SERVICE AREAS
The landing of aircraft is prohibited on lands or waters administered by the National Park Service, U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service or U.S. Forest Service without authorization from the respective agency.

Exceptions include:

1) when forced to land due to an emergency beyond the control of the
operator
2) at officially designated landing sites, or
3) on approved official business of the Federal Government.

All aircraft are requested to maintain a minimum altitude of 2000 feet above the surface of the following: National Parks, Monuments, Seashores, Lakeshores, recreation Areas and Scenic Riverways administered by the National Park Service; National Wildlife Refuges, Big Game Refuges, Game Ranges and Wildlife Ranges administered by the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service; and Wilderness and Primitive areas administered by the U.S. Forest Service. FAA Advisory Circular (AC)
91-36C, "Visual Flight Rules (VFR) Flight Near Noise-Sensitive Areas," defines the surface as: the highest terrain within 2000 feet laterally of the route of flight, or the upper-most rim of a canyon or valley.

Federal regulations also prohibit airdrops by parachute or other means of persons, cargo, or objects from aircraft on lands administered by the three agencies without authorization from the respective agency.

Exceptions include:

1) emergencies involving the safety of human life, or
2) threat of serious property loss.




It's the same for airplanes and helicopters. And does not apply in the state of Alaska unless your running a for profit commercial operation after you get dropped off. Ask Kevin he knows all about this stuff.

I'm a helicopter guy and we deal with this all the time. It's one of the issues of being able to land any where.

Well, bummer! That's no fun.

Agreed no fun, the Forest Service knows how to take the fun out of all kinds of things.

So you happened to do a precautionary landing and sumped some water out of the tanks. While you were on the ground it took you a little while to get your whits about you from the unexpected rough running engine so you took a little walk around the woods and had lunch before you were calm enough to attempt the remainder of the flight... I dont think they will buy the water in the gas 4 times in one day though

Nonetheless, it seems like an awesome thing to try. Sure makes getting into the shortest strips easy and will probably be alone and have the place to myself. I think it would be an awesome adventure. About the fuel, I don't think that would be an issue since I have about 3 hrs. fuel. With half tank and 120 knots, I should be able to reach fuel easily.

Eduardo

I spoke with Canyon Lake Helicopters about this. They didn't think you would have any trouble with the R44. They have flown the R44 extensively in the Idaho backcountry. I would suggest talking to Allen Jessop at Canyon Lake Helicopters in Hamilton, Mt. I think he could answer a lot of questions and give you a lot of tips.

Richard

McCall and Cascade have fuel. And a lot of BC strips within fuel range round trip.

You'll be fine, come on up and have some fun!!

Thanks richpiney, I will definitively give him a call. I appreciate your help. And 58, I can't wait. I'll keep posting the progress. I am planning on leaving El Salvador in the middle of June. I'm already working on my flight planning!

Eduardo

I'd recommend spending some time training with someone familiar with mountain operations in an R44... Or even think about taking a mountain course with a reputable school... Im not sure about the states but I know in Canada there are several schools offering Mountain Courses as it is a requirement to work for BC Forestry. Even 5 hours with a good mountain instructor could help your friend gauge if he has the skills necessary. Paul Bourgeron at Mountain View Helicopter is Calgary Alberta is an excellent R44 guy that does Mtn training.

Parker77, thank you for your input. I will give this guy a call.

Eduardo