I don't think that the slats were the problem. They may have helped him be as slow as posssible when he started hitting shit though.
You ain't gettin' no tug boats into Izzy without EXTREME expense. Like I'm talking skycraning in a pice at a time. Maybe not even dozers. There really isn't much shore or levelish ground to drive a dozer around the lake anyway.
You will be diving from 2800'msl down to whatever depth. Then a guy would need to get about 3000'-3100'msl to clear the trees before you could start a steady descent into the greater Seattle area.
Although I have seen the middle stay open at times most if not all of the lake usually freezes in the winter. We used to land on the ice at the east end and slide into the water in the middle with the Citabria, it was fun.
Should probably be left alone buuuuuuuut they'll screw with it.
Ain't life grand.

Sector,

It is well documented that the Thresher broke up enroute to the bottom. They were on test dives, and were monitored. Sonar recordings of the breakup are around.

That crew didn't suffer long, and they didn't sit in a submarine, waiting for help. All the help in the world wouldn't have helped them past crush depth, and they wound up well below crush depth.

MTV

Shane, this lake is in kind of a bowl on top of a mountain. I seem to recall from overflying it in my (wheeled) airplane that there is a notch or saddle at the southwest corner of the bowl but you still need some altitude above the water to get thru there.
That cable dragging idea might be OK for cats & such but I doubt there'd be much worth salvaging if you tried that with an airplane.
I know a guy who salvaged a Grumman Widgeon out of a lake in northern BC by locating it with an underwater camera, snagging it with a hook, and winching it up. It was stuck in the mud so he took a strain on the drum line and left for a week, when he got back it had popped free of the mud.

Eric

I have landed in this lake many times, both with a PA18 and a Beaver. You are right, you can cross the mountain behind it and then slip around the bowl. On takeoff, you go out through the notch. With both those planes it isn't much of a problem but it does get your attention. What a beautiful place to fly into though for a lunch.

There is NO way to get any equipment into that area that isn't brought in by helicopter.

One of my favorite places to go, for sure.

I asked pops about this again and he says you can think whatever you want, but just remember, you have the governments official version and then you have what those on site claim happened. As far as crush depth, pops would like you to explain why didn't the reactor crush at depth or as of todays date why it hasn't leaked yet? is it possible someone closed the water tight bulkheads insulating/protecting it from the saltwater and in the process trapped themselves inside that compartment in hopes of being rescued as the crew are trained to do, or is the reactor actually leaking, because the official government position is, the reactor hasn't leaked after all these years...

Pops also ask if you could explain the same about the USS Scorpion which sank in the pacific at over twice the depth of the Thresher...

Please don't think I'm attempting to give you a bunch of bs, or cause any problems, because thats not my intentions... I'm simply stating what I've been told by some who knows what happened, because they were there...

Just chalk it up to another damn conspiracy...

mtv wrote:Sector,

It is well documented that the Thresher broke up enroute to the bottom. They were on test dives, and were monitored. Sonar recordings of the breakup are around.

That crew didn't suffer long, and they didn't sit in a submarine, waiting for help. All the help in the world wouldn't have helped them past crush depth, and they wound up well below crush depth.

MTV

Sector,

I have heard the tapes from the Thresher. That boat sank in water far too deep for any compartment on the boat to survive.

And, by the way, the Scorpion sank in the Atlantic, not the Pacific. THere are well documented photos of both boats, as well, and there could have been no survivors.

Nobody knows what sank the Scorpion, but it is pretty clear what sank the Thresher, and that was fixed.

Give Pops another beer and maybe he'll tell you another tale.

MTV

"That boat sank in water far too deep for any compartment on the boat to survive"

MTV
So your saying the reactors are leaking or couldn't of survived because of crush depth? Damn gov lied to us again I guess...

also the cheap shot about my father having beer muscles might of applied if pops hadn't been a Navy Seal... He was also subjected to a Congessional hearing for his actions which saved many lives, and ended with him being awarded a medal... So I'm willing to bet his true stories are alot more exciting than anything 99% of the general population could dream up... besides I've seen the awards, commendations and purple hearts and know he's the real deal... if you don't want to believe me just ask his friend Senator John McCain...

Now me at 52 and having been a controller as long as I have, I've got so many true stories you'd find them hard to believe... Such as a famous aviator who's still alive, declaring an emergency and crying real tears on the radio to help get him back on the ground asap because he knew he was going to die... or being the only controller in history to cancel an approach for AF1 while on final, or hanging up on a call from President Regans Ranch one sunday afternoon, because I didn't have time to answer some dumb ass questions on a private line concerning what type of ac was creating contrails over the pacific to some Air Force General who wanted to impress the President and First Lady who were sitting on the patio at his ranch watching the sunset... I have hundreds of stories and if you have flown in the west during the last twenty years, odds are I've spoken to you at some point via IFR or VFR flight following... MTV, give me your tail number and maybe we can arrange some time for you in the penalty box during your next IFR... (just kidding)

So go ahead and insult my father and I, because I could careless...

mtv wrote:Sector,

I have heard the tapes from the Thresher. That boat sank in water far too deep for any compartment on the boat to survive.

And, by the way, the Scorpion sank in the Atlantic, not the Pacific. THere are well documented photos of both boats, as well, and there could have been no survivors.

Nobody knows what sank the Scorpion, but it is pretty clear what sank the Thresher, and that was fixed.

Give Pops another beer and maybe he'll tell you another tale.

MTV

Hooooooooo, Booooooyyyy.

What a keeper,

MTV

I am 61 yrs old, an ex diver on a fast attack sub and believe me, if the crew on the 593 had been alive on the bottom, the whole sub community would have known about it. The Scorpion sank in 68 and probably had a battery in a torpedo cook off and they couldn't get the torpedo out of the boat fast enough. We had a bad battery in one of our Mk 37's do the same but our torpedo gang got it out of the boat before it made a big mess.


Seals were usually not involved in things like Ivory Bells. It was usually the old frog men types. I have made dives with the like. The Seals were combat types and the boys that made the deep dives were trained in just that and didn't even know how to load an M16. They went very deep with surface supply (out of the sub) and had a kind of wet suit that had warm water pumped from the surface into the suit to keep them warm. Kind of like when you pee in a wet suit.

Oh and by the way, I may have pumped up the stories for my kids also. Really wasn't that big of fish. And slso my dad can beat up your dad.

Tim

sector15 wrote:"Now me at 52 and having been a controller as long as I have, I've got so many true stories you'd find them hard to believe... Such as a famous aviator who's still alive, declaring an emergency and crying real tears on the radio to help get him back on the ground asap because he knew he was going to die... or being the only controller in history to cancel an approach for AF1 while on final, or hanging up on a call from President Regans Ranch one sunday afternoon, because I didn't have time to answer some dumb ass questions on a private line concerning what type of ac was creating contrails over the pacific to some Air Force General who wanted to impress the President and First Lady who were sitting on the patio at his ranch watching the sunset... I have hundreds of stories and if you have flown in the west during the last twenty years, odds are I've spoken to you at some point via IFR or VFR flight following...

I know a couple other controllers that have some pretty funny stories also. Like the VFR pilot that requested help due to being lost. When asked his last known position he said the end of runway (whatever) at his departure point. Gotta' give that guy credit for honesty...

Mark (in a blatant attempt to difuse the thread)

your referring to the navy master diver, of which a few became seals after training at Little Creek Va... The master diver was the navys most knowledgeable diver and managed dive programs for the navy, including salvage/rescue operations... since you were a diver stationed on subs I'm sure your aware of the dive research/test programs and operations that have been conducted off San Clemente Island... Pops was in charge of the navys dive research program on the island for several years... As a teenager we use to fly out of Long Beach with pops and send some time on the island in one of the two guest cottages or in the dive building on the south end of the island and dive for lobster... In fact pops taught me how to drive on the island in one of the navys jeeps...

no worst then having a lady flying her first cross country solo from santa barbara to santa maria and become lost in the hills afraid to gain altitude because she was lost... after several minutes of having her make various turns, I was able to identify her and asked if she saw an airport below, to which she responded no... so I go though the whole process of making sure I was tracking the correct target and finally convinced the woman she was directly over santa ynez airport, we even had people at the glider school in santa ynez confirm she was overhead making each turn we gave her... at this point the pilot advised she was heading to santa maria, to which I reminded her she had already declared an emergency claiming she was lost with low fuel, and advised her to land... she declined, and proceeded towards santa maria... within minutes she reported santa maria insight and started to decend, which I knew was impossible to see from her location... what I soon discovered was she had mistaken hwy101 as smx and was arguing with me as to where the airport was... I advised her the airport was another 60 miles away and vectored her to the airport and we then had the airport impound the plane until santa barbra aviation could send someone up to pickup both her and the ac... what we discovered shortly after this incident was she was in fact out of fuel and running on fumes when she landed...

N6EA wrote:

sector15 wrote:"Now me at 52 and having been a controller as long as I have, I've got so many true stories you'd find them hard to believe... Such as a famous aviator who's still alive, declaring an emergency and crying real tears on the radio to help get him back on the ground asap because he knew he was going to die... or being the only controller in history to cancel an approach for AF1 while on final, or hanging up on a call from President Regans Ranch one sunday afternoon, because I didn't have time to answer some dumb ass questions on a private line concerning what type of ac was creating contrails over the pacific to some Air Force General who wanted to impress the President and First Lady who were sitting on the patio at his ranch watching the sunset... I have hundreds of stories and if you have flown in the west during the last twenty years, odds are I've spoken to you at some point via IFR or VFR flight following...

I know a couple other controllers that have some pretty funny stories also. Like the VFR pilot that requested help due to being lost. When asked his last known position he said the end of runway (whatever) at his departure point. Gotta' give that guy credit for honesty...

Mark (in a blatant attempt to difuse the thread)

sector15 wrote:no worst then having a lady flying her first cross country solo from santa barbara to santa maria and become lost in the hills afraid to gain altitude because she was lost... after several minutes of having her make various turns, I was able to identify her and asked if she saw an airport below, to which she responded no... so I go though the whole process of making sure I was tracking the correct target and finally convinced the woman she was directly over santa ynez airport, we even had people at the glider school in santa ynez confirm she was overhead making each turn we gave her... at this point the pilot advised she was heading to santa maria, to which I reminded her she had already declared an emergency claiming she was lost with low fuel, and advised her to land... she declined, and proceeded towards santa maria... within minutes she reported santa maria insight and started to decend, which I knew was impossible to see from her location... what I soon discovered was she had mistaken hwy101 as smx and was arguing with me as to where the airport was... I advised her the airport was another 60 miles away and vectored her to the airport and we then had the airport impound the plane until santa barbra aviation could send someone up to pickup both her and the ac... what we discovered shortly after this incident was she was in fact out of fuel and running on fumes when she landed...

I wonder what she would have done had you cleared her for a VFR approach to runway 101...

Mark

N6EA wrote:

sector15 wrote:no worst then having a lady flying her first cross country solo from santa barbara to santa maria and become lost in the hills afraid to gain altitude because she was lost... after several minutes of having her make various turns, I was able to identify her and asked if she saw an airport below, to which she responded no... so I go though the whole process of making sure I was tracking the correct target and finally convinced the woman she was directly over santa ynez airport, we even had people at the glider school in santa ynez confirm she was overhead making each turn we gave her... at this point the pilot advised she was heading to santa maria, to which I reminded her she had already declared an emergency claiming she was lost with low fuel, and advised her to land... she declined, and proceeded towards santa maria... within minutes she reported santa maria insight and started to decend, which I knew was impossible to see from her location... what I soon discovered was she had mistaken hwy101 as smx and was arguing with me as to where the airport was... I advised her the airport was another 60 miles away and vectored her to the airport and we then had the airport impound the plane until santa barbra aviation could send someone up to pickup both her and the ac... what we discovered shortly after this incident was she was in fact out of fuel and running on fumes when she landed...

I wonder what she would have done had you cleared her for a VFR approach to runway 101...

Mark

Heck,, thats easy, she would have landed, hit a few cars and then sued ATC for clearing her onto the road...

Proof that aviating is NOT for everybody.

The Everett Herald finally published a story on this crash almost three months after it occurred. The pilot still declines to comment on it, and instead issued a statement:

"We are extremely fortunate and grateful that even though the plane sank, we avoided serious injury," he said in the statement.

The NTSB report says the passenger (whose name still has not been released) was seriously injured.

Is it customary for pilots to be so secretive after a mishap like this? To crash into a remote lake at the end of October, escape a sinking airplane and swim to shore, hike out through extremely rugged terrain, and not talk about it?

Depending on your attitude toward the FAA and NTSB, and depending on the circumstances, yes, it might make a great deal of sense NOT to talk to anyone.

I'm always amazed at people who have an incident and then immediately tell their whole life's story on the internet, on web sites like this one.

As they failed to say to Mr. Miranda: "Anything you say may be used against you in an NTSB hearing".

Well, it was sorta like that anyway....

Anything you post or tell someone about an accident can most certainly come back to bite you. If a passenger was hurt, there may be a very good chance of litigation, so his best bet is likely to shut up.

And, that's probably not bad advice for anyone who has an accident or incident.

MTV

I agree, anything you say to the media can't possibly help you but very probably can hurt you-- especially when you are misquoted or quoted out of context. "Mums the word" is probably a good motto for this situation.
It'd probably be a good idea to keep explanations to a minimum (as in name rank & serial number) when talking to the authorities too.

Eric

sanjuander wrote:The Everett Herald finally published a story on this crash almost three months after it occurred. The pilot still declines to comment on it, and instead issued a statement:

"We are extremely fortunate and grateful that even though the plane sank, we avoided serious injury," he said in the statement.

The NTSB report says the passenger (whose name still has not been released) was seriously injured.

Is it customary for pilots to be so secretive after a mishap like this? To crash into a remote lake at the end of October, escape a sinking airplane and swim to shore, hike out through extremely rugged terrain, and not talk about it?

I just gotta ask ... Why the keen interest in this particular
accident? (just curious....). There are dozens of GA aircraft accidents that
occur across the U.S. every day....

FWIW, I'm with the others who opined that blabbing about an incident or
accident to the news/media (or elsewhere) might not be the best /
brightest idea in the world....

Let the media stick with the usual "The engine stalled and the aircraft crashed" explanation that never fails to expose their ignorance on aviation.