I've been contemplating a Helio Courier. I've done a fair amount of research and while they have some amazing flying qualities, utility and safety they also sound like one of the most challenging TW AC in regards to ground looping. A high time HC pilot tells me to land with the brakes locked (on grass) or land on an intersecting taxi way.

I have ZERO TW time. While I believe I can learn to land a TW just fine, the reality is that I also happen to live where the wind howls, gusts and swirls on a regular basis. When it does, we have considerable wind shear caused by the ponderosa forest bordering the airport. Helio pilots what's your experience been, is the HC a tough bird to handle in these conditions?

Hi,
I have never flown a helio, But I have flown 185's beside them in some pretty rough air, The helio had to turn back,Pilot(Well qualified) Said it was too much to handle. Other than that, I have not heard bad things about them.

Don't know if it's true but I heard, that if you land with more then 30 mph winds you need to have someone on the ground to tie down your plane when you stop to prevent it from going airborne when you get out.

There's a thread or two about Helio's here some place. If I remember right, it's probably packed with lot's of great info. I know there are some awesome pictures in that thread.

I think this is one of the main threads on the Helio:

http://www.backcountrypilot.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=605&hilit=helio

Jaerl wrote:Don't know if it's true but I heard, that if you land with more then 30 mph winds you need to have someone on the ground to tie down your plane when you stop to prevent it from going airborne when you get out.

This same thing happens with my Zenith 801. If I am light on fuel and the wind is blowing 30 or so my plane will try to take off when I step out.. As for the Helio I heard several different stories on their flying qualities. 90% of the things I have heard were since the slats are moveable and easily deployed in gusty conditions the 'fright factor' comes in when one wings slat comes out and the other wings slat stays stowed in turbulance.. They say it takes full aileron deflecton to keep the plane somewhat upright.. And you have to add control input like RIGHT now to keep up with that quirk. My 801 has fixed slats and that issue doesn't arrise in my application... But then the 801 is ALOT slower in cruise flight because of it too....

Ben.

I've got two hours as PIC and about 70 hours as passenger in my friends Helio H-800, and it flys fairly similar to my C-180. I haven't landed it in any strong crosswinds yet, but I was with the owner a few years ago when we landed at Palm Springs with the wind blowing 30 gusting to 40 pretty much straight down the runway. It was fun landing at near 0 ground speed, but it took us about half an hour to taxi to the transient parking area which was on our left. We had to make 3 separate 360* turns to the right as we were on the taxiway with the right brake locked and almost full throttle to get enough momentum to get it to swing around and go left. He had 31" bushwheels on it at the time, and it looked like we were going to twist the tire right off of the wheel. It must've been pretty comical from the tower, cause they were giving us a hard time. It probably looked like a Shriner's Parade gone bad. I can't wait to get some more time in it and get comfortable so I can wring it out in slow flight.

Stol wrote:

Jaerl wrote:Don't know if it's true but I heard, that if you land with more then 30 mph winds you need to have someone on the ground to tie down your plane when you stop to prevent it from going airborne when you get out.

This same thing happens with my Zenith 801. If I am light on fuel and the wind is blowing 30 or so my plane will try to take off when I step out.. As for the Helio I heard several different stories on their flying qualities. 90% of the things I have heard were since the slats are moveable and easily deployed in gusty conditions the 'fright factor' comes in when one wings slat comes out and the other wings slat stays stowed in turbulance.. They say it takes full aileron deflecton to keep the plane somewhat upright.. And you have to add control input like RIGHT now to keep up with that quirk. My 801 has fixed slats and that issue doesn't arrise in my application... But then the 801 is ALOT slower in cruise flight because of it too....

Ben.

"As for the Helio I heard several different stories on their flying qualities. 90% of the things I have heard were since the slats are moveable and easily deployed in gusty conditions the 'fright factor' comes in when one wings slat comes out and the other wings slat stays stowed in turbulance.. They say it takes full aileron deflecton to keep the plane somewhat upright.. And you have to add control input like RIGHT now to keep up with that quirk."

Not true. If you had your eyes closed, most of the time you can't tell when the slats deploy except if they deploy hard enough you hear the noise, and you don't need to react with aileron.

Is it a problem for Helios in the winter? Seems like a little ice could mess the leading edge flaps up pretty easy.

Go to Flyhelio.com and they will have all the answers.

Reuben

I've never flown a Helio either, but I heard that most of the people who post on this forum who start their posts with "I never....but I heard" are full of shit.

And, of course, that occasionally includes this poster

But, not in this case.

Get on the Helio forum, and get some ACTUAL information, as opposed to "he said, she said"

MTV

I'm curious as to why you think you need or want a Helio. They are very capable aircraft, but after seeing more than one flown like a Cessna I don't know why some people buy them. Esp with zero tailwheel time, I would be inclined to suggest that you consider a C180 or even a C182, both of which are pretty capable airplanes in the right hands -- and much more affordable. If and when you outgrow that capability, then go for a Helio. No offense intended.
Another thing to consider....I seem to recall that Helio's have about a 39+ foot wingspan-- not a very good fit for a lot of hangars.

HaFast: That sounds like a pain in the arse taxing...30 minutes to taxi to parking! That really makes me appreciate my nose dragger.

MTV/CSTOL: Just joined the HC web site and I'll do some searching to see if my questions can be answered. Thank you.

HR150: I bet most of us don't need the aircraft we fly, and most of us don't need to fly in the BC. For me, I love to fly, it is also useful for business and personal transportation, and I have a great time in the BC. I sure don't need TW time to appreciate their advantages over a nose gear in the BC.

The 180 and 182 are very capable aircraft. I got my ticket in a 182 and flew a Katmai with Todd Peterson, but felt the 182 was a bit too small for what I'd like to carry. I appreciate the Helio design, including: 15G safety cage, 27kt stall speed and ability to operate in 500'....in my opinion it never hurts to have more runway than you need. Having worked as a paramedic for quite a few years, I know first hand the value of a crashworthy designs and the Helio has a strong 15G safety cage protecting the occupants, the Cessna cabin is an oversized beer can. While I feel the Cessnas are a fairly safe design, S#*T Happens and if it happens to me and my family, I'd rather be in a safety cage than a beer can.

I have an RSTOL TU206 and a 44' hangar, which would fit the Helio nicely. After flying the 206 a while, I started to think the perfect BC plane for me would be a T206 with a Tail Wheel, better short field performance ( 200kts and FIKI would be sweet as well, but a guy can't have everything)... Recently I started reading about the HC. I'll let you know what I find out after talking to some of the HC folks and maybe going and flying one.

emwhiteman wrote:HaFast: That sounds like a pain in the arse taxing...30 minutes to taxi to parking! That really makes me appreciate my nose dragger.

MTV/CSTOL: Just joined the HC web site and I'll do some searching to see if my questions can be answered. Thank you.

HR150: I bet most of us don't need the aircraft we fly, and most of us don't need to fly in the BC. For me, I love to fly, it is also useful for business and personal transportation, and I have a great time in the BC. I sure don't need TW time to appreciate their advantages over a nose gear in the BC.

The 180 and 182 are very capable aircraft. I got my ticket in a 182 and flew a Katmai with Todd Peterson, but felt the 182 was a bit too small for what I'd like to carry. I appreciate the Helio design, including: 15G safety cage, 27kt stall speed and ability to operate in 500'....in my opinion it never hurts to have more runway than you need. Having worked as a paramedic for quite a few years, I know first hand the value of a crashworthy designs and the Helio has a strong 15G safety cage protecting the occupants, the Cessna cabin is an oversized beer can. While I feel the Cessnas are a fairly safe design, S#*T Happens and if it happens to me and my family, I'd rather be in a safety cage than a beer can.

I have an RSTOL TU206 and a 44' hangar, which would fit the Helio nicely. After flying the 206 a while, I started to think the perfect BC plane for me would be a T206 with a Tail Wheel, better short field performance ( 200kts and FIKI would be sweet as well, but a guy can't have everything)... Recently I started reading about the HC. I'll let you know what I find out after talking to some of the HC folks and maybe going and flying one.

They are a fun plane to fly and are very capable, but the biggest deterrent for me owning one is the lack of available parts, and the parts that are available aren't cheap.

There's a TRI GEAR Helio -2 each at Whiteman . Flew in OD colored one years ago . There's another brown and white one on tiedown -that needs another home that will use it more. Check out JAAR's web site to see about Helios capabilities . I've even seen one with turbine power. New ones are available by MAYTAG - 350/400's --- overall very capable airplane. Biggest complaint is geared go-480 engine . try this link
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BzT6AhTM ... re=related

Bill, that's a great video, and one of the things that got me interested in the Helio. Well, I'm not sure if it was the amazing flying or the great soundtrack, either way, I need to find that music on iTunes.

I agree with HaFast, he real issue in owning a Helio is very limited PARTS availability...Sierra Industries I believe plans to distribute parts, but it doesn't look like they're being built yet, much less distributed. And then there's the issue of expense, small production quantities + monopoly = $$$

tri gear helio are not at all for flying off airport ... stick with the tailwheel.

serria indust. are making parts now I think but money out your ears with jaars parts are cheaper from what I hear.

Reuben

hotrod150 wrote:I'm curious as to why you think you need or want a Helio. They are very capable aircraft, but after seeing more than one flown like a Cessna I don't know why some people buy them. ....

I didn't mean to come off as belligeran in my earlier post. But I was reminded of a couple guys I know (sorta). They convinced themselves they needed a Helio for getting out to the back country for fishing purposes. So they bought one. However, by the time the experienced Helio pilot & mechanic they hired to ferry the thing got it home, a list of squawks as long as your arm had come up. And the deeper the airplane was dug into, the more problems were found. They've owned it several years & it still isn't flying. And the saddest part is what I forgt to mention- they are both low time pilots (one's a student) who I am sure would have been better served by an old straight-tail C182.