I am a beginning pilot looking to start building time in a tailwheel aircraft. I live on a ranch where I have easy access to grass "strip" (meadow). I have measured and I can have 1000 feet of grass without much work. This would be aligned with the prevailing wind, with no obstacles and descending terrain at one end and a small power line about 100 feet past the rising terrain end of the runway. The terrain doesn't rise very fast though. The problem is that this strip will be at an elevation of about 7500 feet. So, I am looking for a relatively cheap taildragger which will be capable of getting me in and out of here. I do realize that you have to pay to play, but the very very most I would want to spend is 50k, and a little less would be nice. The airport I'm learning at is about an hour and a half from home, at 5140 feet. There's another small airport about 45 minutes from home with a paved runway, and hangars, but no services at elevation 6007 feet. I am not too concerned with being able to haul more than one passenger or too much cargo. I am a fairly big guy (6'3 and 190lbs bare), so I either need tandem or something with shoulder room. I completely realize that I will need practice before I will be capable of landing at the ranch, and that it may not be feasible on hot summer days, or even at all. My question is: would a small, cheap taildragger such as a Luscombe, champ, 140, etc with an o200 or comparable sized motor (100ish hp) be suited to do this? Or should I go with something bigger? Is one of those small taildraggers capable of flying around at these elevations? I don't have to fly into the ranch with this beginner plane, but if I could that would be nice. I will probably move up to something better in the future once I have some more money and know exactly what I want. Can a 100 HP small taildragger perform at these elevations? I don't have any issue getting up early in the summer to fly while its still cool. I am very open to suggestions on what planes to look for. Thanks

I'm curious what area you live in?

When I owned a Luscombe (c85) I flew it frequently to highish elevation runways without a problem. I was usually 2-up with gear. If your proposed strip really is as described I would have taken my Luscombe there without hesitation. I think it is the clean airframe and long wings that make a Luscombe perform quite well at elevation considering its horsepower.

Home base was 4700 ft and I visited airports at various higher elevations with the highest being 7920. A frequent route one summer was leaving Big Piney, Wy (6990) on hot summer afternoons and needed to be at at least 10K by the time we got to McDougal Pass 25nm away. It was never an issue.

The airplanes you mention are fine given some considerations about your level of proficiency, the techniques you use, valley ridge system, and the meadow. Do you control when the grass is mowed on the strip? Can the toward descending terrain takeoff continue to a stream or major drainage while in ground effect? With heat and wind, down drainage egress until ridge lift could be found would be necessary to get very far. How straight is the down drainage egress? At this elevation with low powered airplanes, early flying without wind and orographic lift may be more dangerous than flying in more heat and wind. With 65-150 hp engines, heat and wind energy (thermal and orographic lift) is a large percentage of total energy. DA, headwind component, wind speed and direction across ridges, crookedness of ridges, grass length and smoothness, down drainage egress, valley ridge systems out of the valley of the meadow, etc. Lots of considerations. Engine size at that end of the spectrum is a minor rather than major issue. Think powered glider.

You’ll always be able to land there. Departure? Meadow and grass runway are two totally different surfaces.

Awesome! Thanks you guys, these answers have been very helpful. I never thought of it as a powered glider. So on the descending side I sure enough can follow the drainage and stay in ground effect indefinitely basically (4 miles) and then it is a big basin with some ridges I could find lift on and with plenty of room to maneuver around. Yes, the strip is on a meadow we own, which I could keep mowed to my liking. Grass could be kept short, there are a couple ridges out of the meadow and then out of the basin, so it sounds like it might just work. I am located near Dell, Montana.

I also do have access to a very experienced instructor who has flown gliders, so I may have him come out and analyze what he thinks about where I could find lift in this system.

swagdaddy,

Email me [email protected] and I will send you some ebooks that will help. Show them to your instructor. He probably won't agree with all safe maneuvering flight techniques, but we can talk. Mountain flying in low powered airplanes is maneuvering flight.

contact

I fly a 100hp Rans S7. Airport elevation 5840' with summer DA well over 8,000' in the early morning. Have never experienced a problem.

Dell is like 30min from me. If you want you could pm me the coordinates to your proposed strip and maybe while I’m breaking in my engine I’ll cruise by.

swagdaddy wrote:Awesome! Thanks you guys, these answers have been very helpful. I never thought of it as a powered glider. So on the descending side I sure enough can follow the drainage and stay in ground effect indefinitely basically (4 miles) and then it is a big basin with some ridges I could find lift on and with plenty of room to maneuver around. Yes, the strip is on a meadow we own, which I could keep mowed to my liking. Grass could be kept short, there are a couple ridges out of the meadow and then out of the basin, so it sounds like it might just work. I am located near Dell, Montana.

There is some great flying around Dell, and I hear the School House cafe is back up and running? That's the place you used to be able to land behind, and rail road crews would also stop there for a bite, back in the day...... I get through there a few times a year. I've been going there way before "the rich guy" paved the strip for his G IV. I also heard that Ted Turner and Jane Fonda got married at his Dell area mega mansion, and other interesting stories about the guy, bet you have the real skinny on it all!

swagdaddy,

I am not familiar with mountain grass, but if you plant: orchard grass is clumpy and bumpy while fescue is smooth and hardy.

contact

courier guy,

The school house Cafe was back up and running...and it is closed again. Sad day. Hopefully it will get going again. It is what puts Dell on the map! My Grandpa went to elementary school there. I do have the scoop. Yeah Ted Turner does have a really nice house there near Dell. There are a few rich guys in the area. It sure is a nice spot.

Before I would fly a cessna 140 off your property you would have to get the right one and one with 100 Horsepower is definitely not it. I too am a big guy 6’4” 250 lbs and I have owned a Cessna 120, for 16 years, that’s a 140 without flaps with the Lycoming 0290D/125 HP. I flew the airplane mostly off of a grass runway 90% of the time. And I sold it two years ago to a guy that has an 1100 ft. farm Strip it is at low altitude but we can go in and out of his strip with two guys no problem at all. They’re just happens to be a Cessna 140 with a Lycoming O290D2/135 HP for sale on barnstormers.
It has a low time Engine and they’re asking just over 30k for it. It’s a nice looking airplane but with all airplanes you need to do some things to it before you should take it into a short strip. This airplane should have all of the radios on the instrument panel ripped out of it because it’s an IFR equipped airplane Which is ridiculous for a Cessna 140, just a com radio intercom and transponder is all you need along with a handheld GPS, then put light weight starter,battery and alternator in the airplane the alternator should be pad mounted on the accessory case to get the weight away from the front end of the airplane. It already has the better swept forward landing gear on it without the extender blocks. If it does not already have solid axles I would put them on immediately and I do mean immediately. Most of these airplanes have stock hollow axles already having some cracks in them and just a couple of bad landings with a new pilot and they will break and you’ll destroy the airplane. One other thing it should have are some 26 inch bush wheels that will increase the angle of attack and and make the airplane get off shorter also makes landings a lot smoother on rough ground and forgiving. One of the thing to add is a seaplane V brace that comes down from the wing spar attachments to the top of the instrument panel. This protects the airplane from destroying the front door door posts also stops the windshield from wiggling and squeaking as you move across rough ground. There’s also one other trick to put a seat back adjustment extender and to give you a little bit more room and get rid of the stock seat cushions. You should be able to pick it up under 30K. You should be able to be into it well under 40K total after you fixed a few things.


Notice of the V brace sitting on top of the instrument panel. Out of six airplanes this was probably the funnest airplane I had A lightweight simple airplane that you can fly a lot without using a lot of gas will teach you more than a 182 or something big like that that uses a lot of gas that you don’t want to fly a lot because it burns too much gas.