For those of you that have been on this site for some know that from time to time questions about Tie Downs has been raised with some great discussion that followed. I've met some of you in the backcountry and elsewhere and you know I'm in the tie down business and we've had had some good discussions about the various tie down systems that we all use, some home made and some produced commercially, such as ours. But the question about how much will they hold is one I was never able to give a good answer to. So during 2010 I made it a project to fly into some of the popular backcountry strips and do a comparison pull test with 3-of our systems and two of the better known ones, The FlyTie and The Claw.

I've gotta be honest, this was a great excuse for me to get 04D in the air and meet some real neat folks in the backcountry and at the same time answering some nagging questions that I've had. This was fun because if folks that we met up with wanted to test their system that they had at the time we would do so. We used a simple tri-pod, commercial scale (that went from 100lbs to 2000lbs)that could be read in 10lb increments, a come along and ropes. Ya gotta remember that this all had to fit into a 170. We came up with a table that shows how our three systems, The FlyTie and The Claw matched up at Johnson Creek, Big Creek, Chamberlain Basin, Moose Creek, Minam Lodge, Red's Horse Ranch and Big Bar matched up. These strips range from a sandy soil type to forested soil types and are located in NE Oregon and Central Idaho. Here is a link to our table http://www.abesaviation.com/pull_tests.asp and I hope it will answer some of your questions. More testing is in the works for 2011 and I hope to venture a bit further east. If you see us testing come on over and we'll put yours to the test. I might charge you a cold beer or in Rob's case a cold "micro" beer. If you got any questions fire away or PM me...

Hey Bill,
I watched your demo, hands down your tie downs win!
I had just bought the flytie's, and was a little disappointed.
If you make it to JC this year bring an extra set with you, I'm in.
I'll find someone who needs my Flytie's.

Can anyone explain how to post a picture in a reply?

thanks

Terry,
Johnson Creek is on my calender. I don't know your route from the west side to Johnson Cr., but if you need a break on your way to 3U2, stop by Enterprise and I'll buy you a cup of coffee.

Vmc wrote:Can anyone explain how to post a picture in a reply?

thanks

The first thing you need to understand about posting a picture is that the picture must have an address. For example: "http://www.eaa839.com/chapter_project/images/01-08-11%20Experimental%20Sign.jpg"

That means it needs to have been published somewhere on the internet. One place you can do that is here on the BCP site under Photo Gallery.

If you can get to and see the picture you can pick up the address by right clicking on the picture and choosing the "Properties" option. Then highlight the address on the small screen that pops up, right click and choose "Copy". Now you have the address stored in memory.

Start your reply and wherever you want the picture inserted click the "Img" box that is in the row of buttons just above your reply. You will get [img]and[/img], without the "and" in between, on your screen.

Click between [img]and[/img] to place your cursor, right click and pick "Paste". This will insert the address of the image you copied.

Thats it!

I just saw that the claw is now being marketed as a doggie tie-down. I can't seem to cop the pic off the net, but search LLBean's site for an example.

http://cdni.llbean.com/is/image/wim/260832_0_49?rgn=0,0,1800,2628&scl=5.319838056680162&id=2AHA3eX_6p6URLNnrrbdqK

How much does a tie-down need to hold? For instance, if a tie-down holds 760#, but only needs to hold 250#, it's over-rated and might be a bit heavy to carry. If I need 250# holding power, and I have a tie-down that's rated at 500# holding power, then I'm satisfied, and don't need 760#.

ASW.

Today in Port Alsworth is gusty 20 to 46 - not unusual- and a good North blow will be gustier. If I were there I would be tied down to the ice or a very frozen beach. I have not seen your system, but I can't figure how it might work on solid ice. Later in the spring when the ice goes bad I will be on a rock beach. the rocks are softball to basketball sized and go as far down as you care to dig. I cant imagine how any of these commercial systems would work there either. ( I use a buried 55 gal drum and chain )


The 20 to 46 and worse is not just a constant pull. It is a constant pull from various directions accompanied by a series of harsh jerks. This constant pull and harsh jerks will go on all night and day. Why not use dynamic test that is more realistic than a static pull?

ASW, my cub will fly at about 32 to 35 with me, fuel, and freight. Lets guess at 1600#. So wind over my lift off speed needs more than 800# of holding capacity plus the continuous jerking from the gusts. Thanks for the spoiler wing covers, I doubt that I need that much

There is a reason we weave the rope thru the enforced rings and the struts. I also use climbing rope with a bit of stretch so the gust
shock does not all hit at the same time.

Finally, no tie down system works unless you know how to tie a knot.

GR

How much does a tie-down need to hold?

I'll always remember the picture in an earlier post of Pops hanging onto his Super Cub somewhere in the West in one heck of a wind storm wishing he had ten people there with him hanging onto that strut with him. But in reality, it's a function of the type of plane you've got tied down, the pilots comfort level, the wind and the soil type. I know the answer to two of those questions (my comfort lever and my plane)and can come close on the third (soil type), but Mr. Wind always keeps me guessing. You're the PIC in the air and on the ground.

Portage,
I agree that no one system will work everywhere and you won't get ours in solid ice either, but at the same time I don't need to carry 55-gal barrels around the Idaho backcountry to get the job done either. And you're right about a dynamic test vs the static test being more realistic, but I haven't figured out how to get a dynamic testing device into my 170. All joking aside, my tests are just trying to compare apples to apples and give folks some relative numbers. Because I know for marketing purposes I could have tested our systems in ideal locations and given you some great numbers that may be "real", but not "realistic".

denalipilot wrote:I just saw that the claw is now being marketed as a doggie tie-down. I can't seem to cop the pic off the net, but search LLBean's site for an example.

http://cdni.llbean.com/is/image/wim/260832_0_49?rgn=0,0,1800,2628&scl=5.319838056680162&id=2AHA3eX_6p6URLNnrrbdqK

Keeps your dog from getting blown away up to 75 mph winds

A very large difference will occur with the ATTITUDE at which your airplane is tied down. Tail-down and nose high into a 40 knot headwind means that the wingts will lift enough to fly the airplane... but if it were level instead of tail down it would make less lift and therefore less stress on the tiedown.

I understand that a lot of experienced people leave the tail either un-tied or tied in a way that allows the til to come up.

I'm guessing that if you had it tied down with the elevator full down (forward stick) the airplane would not want to flly in a headwind (the tail would come up) and in a tailwind the elevator would try to keep the airplane down (so the wind didn't get under the wing and start lifting).

Some sort of a little lightweight folding tripod or stool that allowed the tail to be tied to the ground yet still held the tail up in the level position might be a worthwhile invention.

ASW wrote:How much does a tie-down need to hold? For instance, if a tie-down holds 760#, but only needs to hold 250#, it's over-rated and might be a bit heavy to carry. If I need 250# holding power, and I have a tie-down that's rated at 500# holding power, then I'm satisfied, and don't need 760#.

ASW.

Here's a good old thread on the subject.

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=1815&hilit=bag+rocks

Gump