specs from the beechcraft web site for the G36 Bonanza

Weights
Max Ramp Weight 3,663 lb
Max Takeoff Weight 3,650 lb
Max Zero Fuel Weight No Structural Limitation No Structural Limitation
Max Landing Weight 3,650 lb
Useable Fuel Capacity 444 lb
Basic Empty Weight* 2,630 lb
Max Payload 864 lb
Useful Load 1,033 lb

1,033lb -444lb = 589lb useful load

FWIW

ExperimentalAviator wrote:specs from the beechcraft web site for the G36 Bonanza

Weights
Max Ramp Weight 3,663 lb
Max Takeoff Weight 3,650 lb
Max Zero Fuel Weight No Structural Limitation No Structural Limitation
Max Landing Weight 3,650 lb
Useable Fuel Capacity 444 lb
Basic Empty Weight* 2,630 lb
Max Payload 864 lb
Useful Load 1,033 lb

1,033lb -444lb = 589lb useful load

FWIW

Speculations:

(6) dudes @ 200 LBS = 1200LBS

MTV- my apologies, they were asked to fill out the accident report, not complete and investigation.

I'm not sure how they decide when they do/don't show up to an accident. There was an accident a few months prior where a guy landed short of the runway and totaled a CTLSi and an investigator came down for that one, though there were no injuries.

I can't speculate on the weights and I wouldn't want to venture a guess on the balance portion. However, they did make the statement that they had not run a W&B.

Generally, the NTSB does not investigate general aviation accidents unless there are fatalities, or there is some issue involved that is a priority on the TSBs list of issues....like back in the day when Continental engines were having crankshaft failures.

So, do you CALCULATE a weight and balance for EVERY flight? Most of us don't, though clearly, in a case where it's likely you're close to the limits, it's a great idea.

My point is, there have been MANY aviation accidents in past where many rushed to crucify the pilot (s), based on "obvious" information......accidents in some cases which turned out to involve no pilot fault at all, and in some cases, the pilot actually saved the day, after being handed a shit sandwich and being told to take a bite.

In general, it's best to wait for the accident report and THEN crucify the pilot(s).

MTV

ok...
i have to say though, it look's pretty easy to over load the G36 with the useful load for it.

mtv wrote:In general, it's best to wait for the accident report and THEN crucify the pilot(s).

MTV

What fun is that?

Gump

GumpAir wrote:

mtv wrote:In general, it's best to wait for the accident report and THEN crucify the pilot(s).

MTV

What fun is that?

Gump

Dang, hadn't thought of that....

MTV

Not the first time I have seen this kind of thing involving a group people who aught to know better. I was with a group in Texas headed to Oshkosh. We all worked together for an FBO. The plane had 2 CFIs, 2 line men and an A&P. All of us were pilots and seeking careers flying for food trying to get by.

The Nose wheel on the FBO's rental plane (Cherokee 6) was coming off the ground during taxi. We were piled in like circus clowns. Some were joking and making light of what I considered a real serious mistake. I spoke up and asked that we re-check W&B and gross weight. The left seat pilot (CFI) said he was too tall to sit in the rear of the plane for the first leg because it was the longest leg and couldn't stand to sardined for so long and the right seat pilot (Also CFI) exclaimed that he called shotgun for the first leg so he wasn't going to give up his seat. Eventually we turned around and had everyone re-weigh the bags. They were spot on but in the wrong positions. 2 of the 5 on board under-reported their actual weight (me and the A&P), I guess we were in denial that we might have put on a few pounds since our high school wrestling days.

I couldn't believe that we were loading the plane based on who called shotgun rather than who should be seated forward for weight and balance. I asked my very good friend why he didn't speak up like I had (We were the two lowly linemen) He said, "those guys have way more time than I do. I didn't feel it was my place to second guess them". I had under reported my weight by 14 lbs because I didn't think it mattered until the signs of something wrong started to surface. Everyone on board acted in a way to contribute to the makings of a potential disaster.
'
Fortunately, we were able to have a safe trip and everyone got to log some cross country PIC by bringing some bags forward or aft and putting the correct amount of fuel for each leg, but it still just makes me wonder why with so many of us on board who knew better, how we almost blunder off into the sunset.

Glad I never flew airplanes that were big percentages over gross weight...

But that DonC guy, that Hoser did once, I saw him. Nome guys were like that. Us Kotz and Barrow guys followed the rules.

Gump

I flew a lot of overloaded helicopters and airplanes, but that was with rockets or spray. Carrying people is different. I have always respected that.

contactflying wrote:I flew a lot of overloaded helicopters and airplanes, but that was with rockets or spray. Carrying people is different. I have always respected that.

Jim,

I've met a few rockets and some spray that I liked a lot more than many people I've met.

MTV

mtv wrote:

contactflying wrote:I flew a lot of overloaded helicopters and airplanes, but that was with rockets or spray. Carrying people is different. I have always respected that.

Jim,

I've met a few rockets and some spray that I liked a lot more than many people I've met.

MTV

Lol

Jim, I've done the same but no spray.

A quick way to fix that situation is to send those rockets towards people I didn't like very much, too.

We had a mean but honorable enemy in the NVA. We didn't get mean enough back. MTV sounds like he has had to haul some jerks. You and I have been lucky to miss that.

Jim,

Nah, not too many jerks, but a significant collection of politicians.....much worse

MTV

MTV,
I got into one political diplomatic situation once. The Army was hauling Lt. Gen Omar Bradley, Ret.from Santa Fe to Ft.Bliss in a C-12 (King Air). So many news people and politicians piled on that the smart Army pilots dumped all the baggage on the ramp. Billy Jackson and I, there for an AFTP, got to haul it down to Ft.Bliss in a Huey. It was an honor to haul that general's stuff. We thought about dumping the politician's stuff in the desert.
Jim

MTV,
I got into one political diplomatic situation once. The Army was hauling Lt. Gen Omar Bradley, Ret.from Santa Fe to Ft.Bliss in a C-12 (King Air). So many news people and politicians piled on that the smart Army pilots dumped all the baggage on the ramp. Billy Jackson and I, there for an AFTP, got to haul it down to Ft.Bliss in a Huey. It was an honor to haul that general's stuff. We thought about dumping the politician's stuff in the desert.
Jim

obxbushpilot wrote:The Nose wheel on the FBO's rental plane (Cherokee 6) was coming off the ground during taxi.

So being a Cessna guy, If the 205-6-7 sits on its ass when you load up you are too far aft with CG.
Are the Cherokee's set up the same way?

TangoFox wrote:

obxbushpilot wrote:The Nose wheel on the FBO's rental plane (Cherokee 6) was coming off the ground during taxi.

So being a Cessna guy, If the 205-6-7 sits on its ass when you load up you are too far aft with CG. ?

Not true....only if it sits on its arse with the pilot in his seat. I checked. This is why we put tail skids on all our 206s.

It is a long climb up into the pilots seat, though with the tail on the ground.

MTV

contactflying wrote:MTV,
I got into one political diplomatic situation once. The Army was hauling Lt. Gen Omar Bradley, Ret.from Santa Fe to Ft.Bliss in a C-12 (King Air). So many news people and politicians piled on that the smart Army pilots dumped all the baggage on the ramp. Billy Jackson and I, there for an AFTP, got to haul it down to Ft.Bliss in a Huey. It was an honor to haul that general's stuff. We thought about dumping the politician's stuff in the desert.
Jim

Being a government pilot in Kodiak, it turned out that many politicians on junkets to Alaska would plan a weekend layover in AK for purposes of fishing and sightseeing. Many of them visited Kodiak on those "weekends off" and guess who the local guide and air taxi guy was?

Some of these folks were okay, most were flaming assholes, and one or two were real class acts. One Representative Silvio Conte of Massachusets fell into the latter category. Treated all of us as equals and real people, he invited and specifically asked about what our funding needs were, and several of our big projects got funded because of his horsepower. Oh, yeah, the second or third silver salmon season he showed up for, he brought me a ball cab with the logo "Silvio Conte's Fishing Expeditions". And on the back was embroidered "Pilot".

I think over the years, he brought a couple million in research and maintenance dollars to that place.

Oh, and he always brought a good selection of some REALLY good booze with him.

So, I guess in retrospect not all those VIP trips were all bad.

MTV

mtv wrote:

TangoFox wrote:

obxbushpilot wrote:The Nose wheel on the FBO's rental plane (Cherokee 6) was coming off the ground during taxi.

So being a Cessna guy, If the 205-6-7 sits on its ass when you load up you are too far aft with CG. ?

Not true....only if it sits on its arse with the pilot in his seat. I checked. This is why we put tail skids on all our 206s.

It is a long climb up into the pilots seat, though with the tail on the ground.

MTV

Ha Ha so true!