I've been watching the ever-growing Pioneer fire TFR over Idaho from a distance here in Texas, wondering if anyone's flying who doesn't have to these days.

The webcams at Smiley Creek and Johnson Creek show nearly-empty fields, even though they're some distance from the actual fires. Looks a little hazy, but I can't tell if it's really smoky or not.

Anyone have any PIREPs to share? I'm curious what visibility aloft is like, and whether it's too smoky and stinky to enjoy time on the ground. Seems a shame to see some of our favorite backcountry spots empty during prime flying season.

Other pertinent site

http://inciweb.nwcg.gov/incident/4866/


one of us

I flew over twice on Monday and its smokey. Real smokey in spots. But it's fly able most places and it changes throughout the day. Vis can be real low in the right place at the right time. Some areas are real clear too.

UMMM.....FWIW it mostly sucks....went to thomas creek to drop off some stuff and ended up leaving it in challis...twice...too dicey most of the time...although JC is pretty good and so is chambelain and cold....

A friend and I are heading to ID soon. Hopefully, we will be in ID Saturday. I know that the fires and smoke are a dynamic situation, but I would really appreciate any pireps. It will help us out a bunch.

Thanks,
Joe

I'll be following this closely as I want to go to JC this weekend also.

I have noticed in flight visibility in the smoke is much worse than pictures on the ground looking up. Backcountry flying in limited visibility for me is VERY nerve wracking and I'll turn back rather than press on into the canyons. Wastes a lot of time and money, but better than the alternative.

There is a front moving in right now with maybe some rain, may help the situation out.

A worse problem than not getting in is arriving and having the smoke worsen to the point where leaving is unsafe.

I think it kinda depends. There's a large fire near Thompson Falls, MT that's still generating smoke, but overall IMHO it's been a very low smoke summer for the PNW. Even when the number of TFRs climbed a bit in N. Idaho and E. WA during the middle of August the smoke issues were pretty localized. I seldom had any issues over N. Idaho or E. Oregon with smoke, other than in the downwind plume and even then it wasn't a general problem. It's definitely not an issue now.

I live on lake cascade just 30 or so miles from all the middle fork stuff. The smoke, and the ability to fly back there changes daily and can be highly localized.

As an example, a few days ago, we wanted to fly into cabin creek for some fishing. We flew right over sulphur creek to get into the middle fork drainage. I could not see the lodge and I was only 1500 feet above it flying above the smoke layer. We diverted to big creek and it was smoke free.

The morning inversion usually keeps the smoke layer between 6500 and 8500 feet with pockets of smoke in every canyon toward the middle fork.

If folks still want to fly over here, it's best to check all the aviation webcams available through the mccall aviation website. I'm looking at sulphur creeks webcam and you can't see the hill on downwind. But, Johnson creek and points north look fine.

Finally, around noon, the inversion lifts and the smoke disperses a bit into higher levels. Flying into the sun makes it no fun at all.

In response to the OP, on the ground is never as bad as the visibility flying so if you can get there, you should not be bothered too much. If I were coming from a long distance to camp, I'd plan on the northern strips like Johnson or chamberlain just in case. Those spots are holding up fairly well.

Thanks guys for the local info. Any PIREPs from the Moose Creek/Selway area?

Oregon180 wrote:Thanks guys for the local info. Any PIREPs from the Moose Creek/Selway area?

It's really a coin flip. I've been flying back and forth across the Frank all summer, and the smoke is where you find it. The Pioneer fire is 165,000 acres and the smoke can be seen from space, so if the winds cary it up north the Selway will go IFR. The Roaring Lion fire is pretty much out though the TFR seems to still be in effect.

Getting in and getting stuck is a very real possibility, so have a way of telling folks you'll be a few days overdue.

https://idahoaviation.com/idahoAirstripDetail.php?id=19

The IAA site has a PIREP from August 31st and a picture over Moose Creek. Lots of smoke in the canyons surrounding the field.

Thanks for the info guys. Looks like I'll make alternate plans. I'm sure the Selway trout are breathing a sigh of relief.

No problem flying from McCall last Thursday - Thomas Creek, Big Creek strips, Johnson Creek, Cold Meadows, Root Ranch and Krassel. I use this link for snapshots of what's happening:

https://idahoaviation.com/webcams.php

Yes, thanks for all the information. I really appreciate it.

This looks like an unusual year, or maybe a normal year with an unusually-large fire. I was up there for about two months in 2014 with perfect conditions the whole time. Kinda nice, considering how far I had to travel to get there!

We have had some big fires this year but this time of year is usually pretty smokey in the Idaho Backcountry.

Just bear in mind that where you tie down for the night it may be clear, but a wind change in the night may leave you stranded, or at least in some very heavy smoke when you want to leave. Just because it isn't smoky somewhere today and all the fires are fifty or a hundred miles away doesn't mean you won't be in thick smoke tomorrow. Just part of the deal at this time of year.

MTV

We were up at Smiley Creek this last weekend. The caretaker said that it had been really smokey in there the last few weeks. He said it was like someone shut off the faucet on the traffic coming in and out of there. The front that came through over the weekend helped. Hopefully the rain helped the fire situation too.

Anyone flown into/over moose creek recently? Looking for a smoke report for the airport. Thanks.

As MTV states the dirunal winds can make a big difference in smoke conditions.
Also the cooler air causes the smoke to SETTLE and what was one or two miles visibility going in can become too dense in the morning to gamble getting out till close to noon.

Often the fire base in McCall often does not even try to start actual fire suppression until after ten or eleven AM due to dense settling of the smoke in the canyon bottoms.

Sometimes you can look straight up and it looks OK - until you get off the ground and try to see where your going (forward) in the bottom of the / a canyon.

Chris C