From Aero-News Network:

NTSB Identification: CEN11LA350
14 CFR Part 91: General Aviation
Accident occurred Friday, May 20, 2011 in Frederick, OK
Aircraft: PIPER PA-22-160, registration: N8957D
Injuries: 1 Serious,1 Uninjured.

This is preliminary information, subject to change, and may contain errors. Any errors in this report will be corrected when the final report has been completed.

On May 20, 2011, at 1513 central daylight time, N8957D, a Piper PA-22 airplane, was destroyed after the pilot made a forced landing to a field due to an in-flight fire. The airplane continued to burn on the ground and was consumed by fire. The private pilot was seriously injured and the passenger was not injured. The airplane was owned and operated by the pilot. Visual meteorological conditions prevailed and no flight plan was filed for the local flight conducted under 14 CFR Part 91

According to the pilot, about 20 minutes after he departed he was maneuvering at an altitude of 600 feet when he began to feel his feet getting hot. He thought it might have been the cabin heat, but the heat was getting more intense and the cockpit began to fill with a gray/bluish colored smoke. The pilot then observed black smoke near his left foot and flames, which he attempted to try and stomp out. The pilot made a forced landing to a muddy field where he and his passenger were able to exit the airplane before it was rapidly consumed by fire.

The airplane was examined by an inspector with the Federal Aviation Administration(FAA)the day after the accident. He stated that the entire fuselage, tail section, right wing and the inboard section of the left wing were consumed by fire. The engine compartment also sustained extensive fire damage.

end.

I sat through a ground school once on an older airplane, the subject of a wing fire came up. 6 minutes is all you have to get on the ground if you can't get the fire out. After that the spar could fail at any time. Unless you are crop dusting that means something around, or in excess of, 1000 FPM at most light aircraft cruising altitudes. The above accident was only at 600 ft. and not a wing fire but it sounds like he is lucky to be alive.

And, one of the reasons I don't like airplanes with only one forward door.....Getting out quick is hard enough.

MTV

I totally agree Mike! I think the seaplane door is a great safety improvement on that series! That being said, there are worse ones out there to try to get out of.... like a 190/195, for instance. I also have to shake my head at the number of aircraft that come through shops I've worked in, that have one or two fire extinguishers in them , but have them mounted or stored somewhere that the pilot or even the passengers can't reach them easily in flight! An extinguisher in the baggage compartment is about as handy as runway behind you!
JH

hardtailjohn ,,,,,,,,,,,,i have a cherokee 180,,,, what is the best type of fire extinguisher to use in them and were would you put it,,,,so that the pilot or even the passengers can reach them easily in flight,,,

I agree that about five minutes is the maximum time to spend in the air on fire. When it happened to me, the 737 captain with me wanted to head for the nearest airport. I over ruled that and picked the nearest clearing in the woods. The old rule about flying it all the way to the ground really helps. I could not get the gear down or the smoke cleared out of the cockpit. Breathing and forward visibility were the major challenges. On touchdown, the stock Cessna shoulder harness was pulled as tight as possible. (see other thread) It was barely adequate for the task. Sliding a few hundred feet and then flipping upside down will disorient passengers briefly. Having the doors open before touchdown insures getting out. (if you are conscious) In our case it went reasonably well. The ER doc was a pilot and remarked that the melted shoe laces on our running shoes indicated not much time left as the flames penetrated the firewall. NTSB had no clue, since there was little left to look at after the fire burned out. If you read about C210 fires though.... they don't often turn out well. Turbo charged models are prone to burning I discovered. I now carry a smoke hood on all flights and have inertia reels installed. The main lesson is get it down FAST. Don't stall... pick your best spot and put it there. That is why we practice spot landings. And speed control.
{{{{ Just my opinion... but forget the fire extinguisher. You won't be in any position for it to do any good. Get to the ground. Get OUT..... then you might play with the bottle}}}}}

I still say one of the best places to put the extinguisher is crossways, on the front seat frame. You may have to loosen a shoulder harness to get it out, but that's doable. Sit in the plane and try different locations, try clamping it down and getting it off....just don't keep it under the back seat, or in the baggage compartment!

Here is something I always thought I'd do, what do you think??

If you had an engine compartment fire, I thought spinning it down to the last 500 feet would maybe keep the fire and smoke from coming back into the cockpit?

Ive been thinking about in flight fires some, alot more since the Franklin incident. Ive had no experience with one or would even know how i would handle myself as far as staying calm if i did get into the situation. This fire extinguesher deal, i keep thinking would be a tough thing to use inside a cockpit even with the doors open. Just wondering if it could be mounted handily where a small hose could be quickly attached to direct all the contents into the engine compartment, wouldnt this be the best use for it??

When I do a BFR, this is one big thing we cover in the oral and in flight. I find that this is the first time 99% of the pilots have seriously thought about it. Everyone has had the "What are the memory items for a fire?" routine back when they did their checkride. We discuss it, we practice in the aircraft before we take off and then we do a simulated fire in flight. we work our way up: what if it's white smoke coming from behind the panel that goes away when you turn off the master (continue to first available airport, no electrics) to your feet are getting really hot and the cabin is full of smoke. Right or wrong: I teach appropriate memory items for the aircraft, open door/window on pax side, pilot air vents directed at face.. Max deflection left slip to move smoke/flames away from pilot side. Idle power, Vno to the ground. Get that SOB on the ground NOW is the emphasis. Choosing the landing site is also discussed. Probably a very limited selection, but getting it on the ground under control and balling it up is vastly superior to being overcome by smoke/fire trying to find the "right" spot, IMHO.

Having had a fire start in a pick up on the ground I hope never to have one start in the air, mine was electrical and in less than 1 min I was blinded by the smoke and couldn't breath.

I added two pictures of the burning Cessna 210 after touchdown, to my earlier post. They remind me of how fast an entire aircraft can become an inferno. Also added a comment about fire extinguishers.
Each pilot will decide for themselves... but I don't think fighting a fire in the air has much potential for good. Breathing and visibility are key. You can function with burns (for a while) You can't function without air. And your landing usually sucks if visibility is impaired. I had my passenger (high time 737 jet jockey- get in the back seat for the crash landing as well.) I figured if he was strapped in there, the odds of less injury were better. It worked out that way.

flightlogic wrote:I added two pictures of the burning Cessna 210 after touchdown, to my earlier post. They remind me of how fast an entire aircraft can become an inferno. Also added a comment about fire extinguishers.
Each pilot will decide for themselves... but I don't think fighting a fire in the air has much potential for good. Breathing and visibility are key. You can function with burns (for a while) You can't function without air. And your landing usually sucks if visibility is impaired. I had my passenger (high time 737 jet jockey- get in the back seat for the crash landing as well.) I figured if he was strapped in there, the odds of less injury were better. It worked out that way.

Wow that it amazing... glad you made it out ok

I was taught, Fuel selector to off first, and a little fire sleeve from the gascolator to carb dosent hurt anything.

You might be surprised by unexpected details in an emergency like an inflight fire. In my case, I had to use power to clear a line of Ponderosa pines to get lined up for touchdown. The throttle did nothing.... I presume maybe a vapor lock from the intense heat. So, I resorted to the boost pump, knowing full well that might make the fire even worse. But, I got over the tree line.
I tried to lower the gear and even pumped the emergency handle. Nothing happened. Maybe the hydraulic lines were compromised by the fire. Maybe the power pack was the guilty party in the first place. They have been known to overheat.
In the end, a gear up landing was best anyway. The prop sure make funny noises though as it ground down nearing touchdown.
Really none of the common advice about fuel selectors, fire extinguishers, slipping/sliding, putting the fire out etc. did squat.
The only thing that really helped was getting the doors open. The guy I put in the backseat jammed his feet in the doors on the way down.... to get us some air to breathe. I called it the gynecological crash position. Funny now.... but it worked .
When I learned to fly in the '70's a guy in Phoenix flew all the way to Deer Valley airport with a wing fire. Burned right off on downwind. Killed them all. Another landed a burning C210 at the same airport. Doors jammed. All died as rescuers listened to them screaming inside. These things make a lasting impression.
Keep safe out there. Hope that all this remains interesting reading, and not reality that jumps up to bite you.
Prayers to Amanda and her family. She struggled for a long time. I hope she is free of pain in a better place now.

I absolutely hate the thought of getting burned. I'll gladly die in a hail of bullets, an airplane crash, etc., but keep me out of the fire!

So, I always carried a couple of 1 liter soda bottles full of water in the back of the passenger seat. They were primarily to give myself and the pooches something to drink, and I could reach them in flight and pour them on myself in the event of a fire.

I figured it wouldn't hurt to have something pressurized that I could spray on an inflight fire, so after some research, I found a product called FireAde 2000. It's a water-based foam, unlike most extinguishers it absorbs quite a bit of heat, it's non-corrosive, non-toxic, and you can spray it on yourself, but you can't use it on an electrical fire (however the master switch mitigates that problem).

I bought a couple of 16 oz. extinguishers (best price I found: http://www.campingsurvival.com/fi2016ozfiex.html), and I put one in my flight bag. One of the problems with water-based foam is that the extinguisher could freeze and burst, so I can't store it in my plane full time. Someday, I will have to try one of them on a real fire, but the reviews I found on this product were generally quite positive.

Flightlogic:

As a guy with a lot of C210 time, I was not aware of their propensity to catch fire. I did an internet search on "Cessna 210 fires" and really didn't come up with much. Been looking real hard at a T210 as a compromise between something fast enough to get from one coast to the other yet with some backcountry capability. Can you share more information - is this really frequent? Is there a fix?

Best,
O-2

I had an in-flight fire in my Cub right after the cursed bigger engine was installed. Smoke was everywhere in the cockpit. It was hard to breathe and even harder to see where I was flying. I opened the side window, which actually made the smoke situation worse, because it sucked all of the smoke into the cockpit from the back of the plane. If I'd have had a parachute, I'd have left the Cub to fend for itself. I was lucky to make a successful precautionary/emergency landing on a crooked, muddy road at 8500 msl. No damage to the Cub and no injuries. As it turns out, they had installed an intermittent-duty relay instead of a continuous-duty relay on the main battery circuit, which burned up, melted the battery positive terminal & case, burned the battery wires and the wood block under the battery box lid. I don't think a fire extinguisher would have helped in this case, as the fire was behind the back seat in the fuselage. Where there's smoke there's fire and land asap in case of fire, that's my $0.02

windy

Windy, Do you have two hats then??

You were lucky I'd say. Nobody answered my question if spinning down when you have an engine fire, would that keep the smoke out of the cockpit?

After our Turbo Centurion burned, I did some research on the NTSB accident results. It seemed like there were a number of similar incidents, but with fatal outcomes. Now, having said that.... I don't know how that holds up statistically. There are certainly many many C210's that were in service and are still. I am not the superstitious type, so I suppose I would use one again if the situation called for it. I do carry and smoke hood though. (it was made under the brand name EVAC - U -8.
I bought several. Then after a while they did a recall. Asked for them all to be sent back.
I ignored that and kept mine. I suspect a lawyer or two go involved and said it would not save everyone.... and therefore they would have to pay out to a family grieving in front of a jury sometime. Probably decided the profits did not justify the liability. Did I mention I have little respect for lawyers... but lots of respect for fire.

Has *anyone* even ever heard of an in-flight fire being successfully put out in the cockpit? I have not.

I had smoke from a tube radio power supply once. The problem was well out of reach behind the panel. I think that 95% or more of the time, the trouble to discharge an extinguisher in the cockpit is time better spent getting the rubber on the dirt as fast as practicable after turning off the fuel. There is simply no time unless you can directly identify the nature of the fire. My incident was *very* minor, yet the smoke went from smell to very visible within about 15 seconds, and was downright chokingly thick by the time I was firmly planted on the runway just seconds after (I was near the airport pattern). Spending time to find it and put it out was simply not an option. If it had happened away from the airport, I would have easily preferred to plaster it into the nearest clearing with a survivable "landing" rather than hold out *even for another two minutes*. On the other hand, I carry dry chemical because a) they last longer, and b) they are persistent. Repeated tests show an extinguisher is largely ineffective for small, closed BC fires unless the source of the smoke/flame is both de-energized (electrical shorts, fuel source) and held in a suppressed environment for at least 7 to 10 seconds. This will not happen with halon unless you are directing it at the source continuously. Dry chemicals have the persistence to suppress ignition well after the chemical is applied (latent suppression). Halon has virtually zero latent suppression. Dry chemicals will, however, coat everything in the cockpit, including your lungs. They are a terrible mess.