Hello all, I'm reviewing the books on a 1956 182 and the newest W&B sheet says the empty weight is 1781 lbs. That seems extremely high compared to the factory empty weight of 1550. How does a plane gain 231 lbs?!?! I've looked through the logs and haven't noted very many instruments that have been added. A stol kit and 3 blade prop is installed, but I wouldn't imagine that it would add that much weight. Any ideas?

If its anything like my 180, all the sludge, oil and mud in the belly had to add up to something LOL. I got 4 or 5 coffee cans full of sludge out of the belly when I got the ole ramp mummy into the hangar and started working on her. I bet what I got out only came to maybe 20 pounds though. I did get rid of a lot of weight loosing the ADF, the HF tuner and trailing wire antenna reel etc.

A 200# increase seems pretty excessive though..

200 lbs seems a bit high, but mine is +100# higher than the base model empty weight.

Options: long range tanks, radios installed, bigger alternator, fire extinguisher, deluxe seats (whatever that means), nav lights and strobe, two tone paint (yes, listed as an option with a weight,even though my year was not offered plain as far as I can tell), heavier battery, ext baggage, etc. When I added guestimates for all the extras, it comes fairly close (within 30 pounds). The grime and anti corrosion wax are likely nothing more than several pounds (I hope). I removed 28 lbs of A/P and LF boxes in the latest round. I'm pretty sure I'm at 1720 for a '62, 1731 with the big nose wheel and strut attached (heavier fork and tire/tube).

Thanks for the input. I'll see what else I can find out as far as additional options that were on the plane, but I'm still surprised about the additional weight.

100+ pound increases on early 180s and 182s from Cessna factory paper, even allowing for installed equipment, are in my experience very common. For those that have actually been weighed, anyway.

There has been debate on this on various forums. Some claim to know that the factory config behind those weights back in the 50s may have been a bit more stripped than you would imagine.

And then it is amazing how all the 'negligible' weights add up in reality, kind of like my checking account expenses or a backpack loaded with little gadgets.

200lbs does sound on the high end, but I would bet 100lbs is findable by comparing equipment with factory paper, and 100 lbs. is just, well, a mystery.

Almost ANY "factory base weight" or "average weight" is filled with fairy dust. Beechcraft seems to be the rare exception to this, but Cessna's "factory weights" in my experience are pretty light. Go to OSH or Sun N Fun and ask the reps what a display airplane weighs.....generally they'll quote the "factory empty weight". Then ask to see the weight and balance for THIS airplane..... You'll hear lots of excuses, like "oh, we don't keep that in the plane at shows cause it could be stolen". Okay, so look at it tonight and I'll check with you tomorrow. Next day, head sales guy claims this plane is an experimental test airplane (no experimental placards in plane) which isn't required to have a weight and balance....... Really? I told him I'd go visit with the FAA guys about that. I didn't, but, good grief.

So, if you're looking at factory sales figures, I can just about guarantee they are BS.

I too think 200 lbs is on the high side, but airplanes do gain weight. I once took 40 some pounds of wiring and old radio mounts out of a 180. You may be amazed at what's under those floorboards.

MTV

The original W & B on my 1967 Cessna 180 reads 1535 lb. I have not had it on scales yet, but reading about the C180 weight obsession of forum members, target weights and findings once they hit the scales, I imagine that I might be close to 200 lbs overweight as well.

Is your 1700lb weight based on calculation or weighing?
Maybe someone forgot to "carry the 1".

mtv wrote:Almost ANY "factory base weight" or "average weight" is filled with fairy dust. Beechcraft seems to be the rare exception to this, but Cessna's "factory weights" in my experience are pretty light. Go to OSH or Sun N Fun and ask the reps what a display airplane weighs.....generally they'll quote the "factory empty weight". Then ask to see the weight and balance for THIS airplane..... You'll hear lots of excuses, like "oh, we don't keep that in the plane at shows cause it could be stolen". Okay, so look at it tonight and I'll check with you tomorrow. Next day, head sales guy claims this plane is an experimental test airplane (no experimental placards in plane) which isn't required to have a weight and balance....... Really? I told him I'd go visit with the FAA guys about that. I didn't, but, good grief.

So, if you're looking at factory sales figures, I can just about guarantee they are BS.

I too think 200 lbs is on the high side, but airplanes do gain weight. I once took 40 some pounds of wiring and old radio mounts out of a 180. You may be amazed at what's under those floorboards.

MTV

Good to know!

It was actually weighed on scales... Thanks Scolo for the info

i recently weighed a 53 180, factory paperwork said 1506 and when i weighed it , it was 1727. the last paperwork was 1620, but it was not correct, the empty CG was 56 or something, so clearly it was not right.

My J3 now weighs 100lbs more than when she was born. You cannot believe the piper paper from 1940's. MIne now has: bigger engine, metal prop, transponder, gear upgrade, cleveland disc brakes, airstreak bushwheels, ELT, scott 3200 tailwheel, ceconite with probably more high-solids paint than original, wing tank, shoulder harnesses etc... Pounds add up.

I helped weigh a guys Interstate Cadet while in the LSRM training. He swore up and down it was about #675. It came out at #812. It was clean as a whistle with no visible clutter or crud. Handheld radio etc. It was not cotton and dope though. Ceconite and turd brown paint.

I have a 56 182 that weights 1512 empty . 2 seats,Sportsman STOL kit ,oversized mains and nose wheel , firewall mounted battery , Extended baggage , etc. When I got N5502B in 1996 it was a refurgee from Tie down , from the very first teardown weight was functional or gone . Ripping out the old wiring gave me trash can full of old crap. Stripping paint down to bare metal and cleaning out all the old junk from belly take's out presecious pounds. New panel and modern radios ,no Vor radios - GPS and light weight instruments . I do Weight and balance with digital scales and my computer program . It is conceivable that there are 1700-1800 lbs 56 182s out there with extra stuff.

So if you had not installed Sportsman you would be at 1495 lbs? Weighed on certified scales? Sorry I'm really not being sarcastic, I've just never seen any hard evidence of a 1500 lb. 180 or 182.

182 STOL driver wrote:I have a 56 182 that weights 1512 empty . 2 seats,Sportsman STOL kit ,oversized mains and nose wheel , firewall mounted battery , Extended baggage , etc. When I got N5502B in 1996 it was a refurgee from Tie down , from the very first teardown weight was functional or gone . Ripping out the old wiring gave me trash can full of old crap. Stripping paint down to bare metal and cleaning out all the old junk from belly take's out presecious pounds. New panel and modern radios ,no Vor radios - GPS and light weight instruments . I do Weight and balance with digital scales and my computer program . It is conceivable that there are 1700-1800 lbs 56 182s out there with extra stuff.

182 STOL driver wrote:I have a 56 182 that weights 1512 empty . 2 seats,Sportsman STOL kit ,oversized mains and nose wheel , firewall mounted battery , Extended baggage , etc. When I got N5502B in 1996 it was a refurgee from Tie down , from the very first teardown weight was functional or gone . Ripping out the old wiring gave me trash can full of old crap. Stripping paint down to bare metal and cleaning out all the old junk from belly take's out presecious pounds. New panel and modern radios ,no Vor radios - GPS and light weight instruments . I do Weight and balance with digital scales and my computer program . It is conceivable that there are 1700-1800 lbs 56 182s out there with extra stuff.

Those are some great weights! It would be nice to get rid of a bunch of the excess stuff on this bird to reduce overall empty weight.

There is such consistency in this weight gain phenomenon over the last 40-60 years, whether airplanes or people, it is obvious that it is due to climate change brought on by atmospheric pollution.

Mark J

skyjeep wrote:So if you had not installed Sportsman you would be at 1495 lbs? Weighed on certified scales? Sorry I'm really not being sarcastic, I've just never seen any hard evidence of a 1500 lb. 180 or 182.

182 STOL driver wrote:I have a 56 182 that weights 1512 empty . 2 seats,Sportsman STOL kit ,oversized mains and nose wheel , firewall mounted battery , Extended baggage , etc. When I got N5502B in 1996 it was a refurgee from Tie down , from the very first teardown weight was functional or gone . Ripping out the old wiring gave me trash can full of old crap. Stripping paint down to bare metal and cleaning out all the old junk from belly take's out presecious pounds. New panel and modern radios ,no Vor radios - GPS and light weight instruments . I do Weight and balance with digital scales and my computer program . It is conceivable that there are 1700-1800 lbs 56 182s out there with extra stuff.

Well I do have certified scales that are checked every other year - there accurate to .1 of 1 % up to 3000 lbs per pad . My airplane is the lightest 180/182 I've done - and I do 10-20 airplanes / helicopters a year . Most of the narrow body 182s will come in 1550 + and most a little past 1600. All of the wide body (1962 and later) runs 1700 + with some over 2000 lbs .Pulling out that old G35 battery will save you 30 lbs +.

That's really interesting, I'd like to learn more about that. I've never seen one actually weighed at that weight, just calculated. Even ones not loaded up, just basic comm, old wiring removed, no leather interior, etc. So it's good to know it really is possible to get that low a weight in reality.

Have you seen a lot of variation in weight of same configuration planes of same vintage, that you have weighed? In a basic 180 there is just not that much there... A fuselage, wings, and an engine and you can look in enough inspection holes to verify there isn't 100 lbs of old wiring or birds nests or whatever. I guess sheet metal thickness and engine walls could vary within specs with the light ones of same year being the ones that ended up on the thinner side of the specs. Paint is maybe 30 lbs?

If you are willing to share info on past planes actual weight and equipment, I'd be really interested. I hear a lot more about people being surprised to get 1700+ actual weights with 100 lb surprises even allowing for mod weight.

182 STOL driver wrote:Well I do have certified scales that are checked every other year - there accurate to .1 of 1 % up to 3000 lbs per pad . My airplane is the lightest 180/182 I've done - and I do 10-20 airplanes / helicopters a year . Most of the narrow body 182s will come in 1550 + and most a little past 1600. All of the wide body (1962 and later) runs 1700 + with some over 2000 lbs .Pulling out that old G35 battery will save you 30 lbs +.

EVERYONE thinks there airplane is light until we set it on scales ~~ then the long faces. Calculate ing weights from old weight and balance forms is wishful thinking at best . Lots of airplanes have old wiring,radio racks, etc. For long ago systems . I've found old tools , long lost rings ,watches under floor and in tailboom. Washing out fuselage ,wings, can produce coffee cans full of junk and dirt . Doing a annual on C180 once found bucking bar under back seat floor that couldn't get out . ELT not strapped in and bouncing all around ~~~ cans of spray oil ,safety wire plyers and yards of safety wire,it all adds up . Depending on where the weight is can throw calculations in a tailspin. Modifactions to twins is a whole new ballgame . Takes 1-2 hours for singles , add another hour for twins and helicopters .