I saw the other thread about iPad apps that people are using, but I'm curious how many - if any - are using an iPad (or similar device) entirely in place of paper maps - and leaving the paper products at home altogether. I'm getting ready to do a VFR coast-to-coast flight in an open cockpit and pondering how to manage the charts I'll need.

I could buy all the sectionals I think I'll need - burdensome, heavy, and potentially wasteful as there are many I'm sure I won't end up using. I could buy the Air Chart atlas system, which is far more compact and would certainly be easier to use in an open cockpit. Or I could suck up the acquisition cost of the iPad and just download what I need with Skycharts.

It seems pretty widely established that it is perfectly legal to make a part 91 flight without paper sectionals on board, the question is how prudent it would be. The downside of technology is the pickle you can end up in when it craps out on you, which it will do with some statistical likelihood. Realizing that, there is a large appeal of foregoing a heavy stack of paper in favor of one device.

I'm sure that sometime in the not-to-distant future someone will read this thread and chuckle that there was a point where we still even considered carrying physical charts, but we're still in the throes of embracing this technology. At this point it still feels a like it would be a radical leap.

Thought? Experiences?

I am using FlightPrep software on a touch screen tablet. WAAS GPS and WXWORKS. I can not emphasize enough how much I like it. No system is perfect. I like apple stuff, I use iPhone. iPad doesn't have a WAAS GPS, can over heat and shut off on a hot day. No USB ports.

The flight prep system runs on a real IBM touch screen convertible laptop. You can do any normal computer stuff too. You can install it on 3 computers. Mix and match any level of data you want. Flight Guide. AFD also available.

No Canada charts yet. Getting very close though.



http://www.flightprep.com/rootpage.php?page=HomeEFB

Call and talk to Ross. Tell him you know me. Ask him what he thinks about iPad.

Cheers...Rob

Do you still carry paper charts in the plane as backup though Rob?

Statistically, there have been very few instances of paper charts failing in flight. Statistically, I'm sure you can even find some instances of managing and wrestling with the charts in the cockpit as having caused some kind of accident somewhere. The paper makes me feel fairly secure instead of an electronic device on many levels. The iPad probably is a LOT more convenient and manageable inflight.You can make a case either way, as already indicated.

There would be a huge benefit to having your GPS position put right on the sectional chart as a moving map IMHO. That would make situational awareness much much more intuitive.

Which leaves you with the question of really just how much weight/cost/hassle it is to fly with the paper charts as an emergency backup.

I think the weight is maybe a couple or three pounds... about the same penalty as taking off after you've eaten the "MTOW Special" lunch at Bubba's Airport BBQ and Feed Trough.

The cost of paper backups can be eliminated though. If you decide to buy the iPad, just use obsolete sectionals as your emergency backup. Have the relevant sectionals within arm's reach on each flight, leave the non-relevant ones in the back. If your iPad fails, you can keep going, using the old charts as a backup until you get to your next stop, where you can then purchase a current chart, and continue the flight.

I'm reasonably sure that the FAA would agree this is a reasonable choice. You have both ends of the safety spectrum covered, you started the flight with current nav data, and you gave yourself a safe out in case the primary failed.

EZFlap wrote:The paper makes me feel fairly secure instead of an electronic device on many levels.

That's the root of my hangup - even if I can rationalize relying solely on an electronic device there's something reassuring about having a sectional tucked under my leg. That said, paper charts in an open cockpit are a pain in the ass. Every time you open it up to refold it there's a chance it could get sucked out. I know they did it for years but I'm equally sure that many a paper product has been ripped from gloved hands

I've heard of guys cutting out the pertinent pieces of the sectional along the route of flight, taping them together end to end, then rolling them up on a pair of PVC pipe sections and spooling along as needed. Of course if the route changes dramatically along the way you may be fishing in the back for the unused shreds of sectional you cut away.

But don't you have a LORAN in that Stearman?

RDUStinson wrote:I've heard of guys cutting out the pertinent pieces of the sectional along the route of flight, taping them together end to end, then rolling them up on a pair of PVC pipe sections and spooling along as needed. Of course if the route changes dramatically along the way you may be fishing in the back for the unused shreds of sectional you cut away.

But don't you have a LORAN in that Stearman?

How did I know you would weigh in on this with something as high-speed as a pair of PVC pipes? Therein lies the potential convenience of the iPad - complete chart coverage to accomodate wx driven route changes.

Surely they have an app that emulates LORAN? Good teaching aid for a "History of Navigation" course

I have two GPS's and almost never use the sectionals in the scout. On a cross country trip in the cub, I took one GPS hooked to a motorcycle battery.

I have no paper in the plane. If I can't get where I need to be with my 430W paper won't help.

With FlightPrep you can print Sectional strip maps of your route. Low enroute also. I used to but not any more. The system is so stable I am confrontable with no paper.

Last IFR flight I didn't even print the plate, I usuell print those.

Cheers

With the WAAS GPS you have moving approach plates too. When your taxiing you have a moving airport diagram.

Cheers

Vick were testing IPads in the Airlift world right now. We carry a world wide pubs kit on every mission. It weighs in at 95lbs of paper. They already stole all our survival gear for fuel savings so I guess that's the idea. Would sure be nice to not have to deal with 3 giant bags of FLIP.

How did I know you would weigh in on this with something as high-speed as a pair of PVC pipes? Therein lies the potential convenience of the iPad - complete chart coverage to accomodate wx driven route changes.

Surely they have an app that emulates LORAN? Good teaching aid for a "History of Navigation" course

Even I could figure out a pair of PVC pipes in an open cockpit over the mountains. But what about when you get that "BOOTROM error 406"?

You kids today with your fancy gadgets- sheesh!

A quick update, Jeppesen now has charts available for the iPad.

http://www.jeppesen.com/microsites/jeppesen-mobile-tc/

I haven't used it so I can't comment on it, not sure on the price either.

I have an iPad and loaded the Jeppesen program, it was free since we are already subscribers to JeppView.
Other than not being able to view the enroute charts like you can on JeppView, or the J-aid stuff like the airport or weather pages and not having any type of moving map ability, it works pretty well. As somebody else said it is a pretty slick $1000 chart viewer. In Jepp's defense they do say they are going to improve the capabilities. I don't think I would like an EFB as a single source for my approach charts, combined with some sort of on board GPS/FMS like when our boss buys a G550 (rotflmao) only then would I put my printer into storage.

Thanks for the feedback Porter.

I'm sure it will be improved, and soon. I know that the current program was a "get it out the door" job because we were loosing market share to foreflight and others. It is nice that's it's bundled with a Jeppview subscription.

I may have to pick one up, even though I'm not an Apple guy. Its application seems pretty appealing for the average GA pilot.

mountainmatt wrote:Thanks for the feedback Porter.

I'm sure it will be improved, and soon. I know that the current program was a "get it out the door" job because we were loosing market share to foreflight and others. It is nice that's it's bundled with a Jeppview subscription.

I may have to pick one up, even though I'm not an Apple guy. Its application seems pretty appealing for the average GA pilot.

I should have also mentioned that we fly outside the US 99% of the time so all of the other great programs won't work for our flying.
Flight prep, foreflight etc. are very good at bundling free US data and selling it on to the public, Jeppesen is it for the rest of us.

Post mission debrief - the iPad with SkyCharts Pro worked exactly as I hoped it would for my VFR application, I'm very pleased with it. I had thought of cobbling together some sort of kneeboard to mount it on but it turned out to be easier to just slip it in the map case in front of the stick and break it out as needed.