I'm sure some of you have heard, but what I have been waiting for is finally happening - the new iphone 4 will have a 3-axis gyro. I have a nice panel, but no attitude info. I have kind of longed for some sort of emergency IFR information.

There are already so many "fake" EFIS and Artificial Horizon apps for the iphone that will kill you if you try to use them that way, but now with an actual solid state gyro, these should become usable for emergency IFR.

Oh, it also retains the compass and accelerometers, and adds now 720p HD video recording with ability to edit right from the phone. Video chat as well, although I doubt I will use that.

Comes out June 24th. I'll be getting one sometime after the rush subsides and let folks know how it works - I am sure an app will be available by launch date for aviation.

http://www.apple.com/iphone/specs.html

Too bad they still don't have a real GPS, only assisted which makes it useless for navigation outside of Cell tower or Wi-Fi range.

porterjet wrote:Too bad they still don't have a real GPS, only assisted which makes it useless for navigation outside of Cell tower or Wi-Fi range.

Huh? iPhones have had a "real" GPS ever since the iPhone 3 model. Only the original iPhone didn't have one.

The iPhone uses GSM triangulation to get an initial fix, then GPS thereafter. I haven't had great luck with pure GPS on the initial fix.

The base map overlay is loaded realtime from 3G/Edge/Wi-fi, which makes it tough to use outside a coverage area. What would be great is an app that will cache map overlays and point locally on the device, or let you download a few map "panels" before leaving coverage area.

BTW, "assisted GPS" (or A-GPS), is real GPS. What the "assisted" means is that the device can use data from the network to help it determine it's location more rapidly. This is often important when trying to get a GPS lock in a city or in other situation where you have a poor signal from the satellites, and it also means you don't have to wait the minute or so it can take for an unassisted GPS to get a lock.

The original iPhone didn't have A-GPS. Instead, it relied on triangulation using the signal from cell towers. But all subsequent iPhones (3G, 3GS, 4) have a real GPS. You can find out more about the GPS used in the iPhone here: http://www.edepot.com/iphone.html#iPhone_3_Hardware

1SeventyZ wrote:The iPhone uses GSM triangulation to get an initial fix, then GPS thereafter. I haven't had great luck with pure GPS on the initial fix.

The base map overlay is loaded realtime from 3G/Edge/Wi-fi, which makes it tough to use outside a coverage area. What would be great is an app that will cache map overlays and point locally on the device, or let you download a few map "panels" before leaving coverage area.

When flying over the Atlantic I am usually able to get a fix. It can take a couple of minutes, but it eventually gets one. Of course without cell coverage it can't download the map data, but there are a few apps out there that let you cache map data for use when out of network coverage. Skycharts in particular lets you download and cache VFR sectionals, IFR, and TAC charts (http://www.skycharts.net/)

1SeventyZ wrote:The iPhone uses GSM triangulation to get an initial fix, then GPS thereafter. I haven't had great luck with pure GPS on the initial fix.

The base map overlay is loaded realtime from 3G/Edge/Wi-fi, which makes it tough to use outside a coverage area. What would be great is an app that will cache map overlays and point locally on the device, or let you download a few map "panels" before leaving coverage area.

You sure about that? The Droid has an assisted GPS also but it has been discovered that you only need to have the phone radio on for the GPS to start working. There is no requirement that the phone actually be receiving cell signals. Once the GPS starts figuring out where it is you can shut down the phone radio and run off the GPS only.

Bonanza Man wrote:

1SeventyZ wrote:The iPhone uses GSM triangulation to get an initial fix, then GPS thereafter. I haven't had great luck with pure GPS on the initial fix.

The base map overlay is loaded realtime from 3G/Edge/Wi-fi, which makes it tough to use outside a coverage area. What would be great is an app that will cache map overlays and point locally on the device, or let you download a few map "panels" before leaving coverage area.

You sure about that? The Droid has an assisted GPS also but it has been discovered that you only need to have the phone radio on for the GPS to start working. There is no requirement that the phone actually be receiving cell signals. Once the GPS starts figuring out where it is you can shut down the phone radio and run off the GPS only.

I wasn't stating that the GPS doesn't work without cell signal, just that it uses it to more efficiently get an initial fix, as has been stated a few times already. When powering up from an off state without the aid of cell triangulation to get a fix, it has taken me a retardedly long time to get a fix. I've tried on commercial flights to get the GPS to fix but no luck. I haven't tried in my plane cuz...well I just spend my time toying with the 496.

I think we're hashing out an old issue though and avoiding the original post, which is addresses using the 3-axis solid state inertial sensor as an attitude instrument. Sounds kinda scary. My iPhone sometimes lags and slows down to the point where it will barely respond for seconds at a time. How'd you like to have that happen in IMC????!!

Zane, get rid of all the porn and it will be lighting fast.

I will do a full report, good or bad, after flying - with an actual available app. I talked to Jurg at iHUD today, and they are thinking it could be 4 weeks plus to add to their app, but that's the direction they are going.

Let's see!

Sorry for the slightly off-topic...but does that Skycharts program for Iphone have foreign charts available or only US charts?

hmm, I'll have to try again. Our mechanic has one, not sure what model, I think 3G. I put my Nokia and his iphone in the windshield on a recent trip, mine found us in a couple of seconds but his never did. We were about 100 miles from takeoff when we turned them on, maybe 5 minutes wasn't long enough...lol

1SeventyZ wrote:
The base map overlay is loaded realtime from 3G/Edge/Wi-fi, which makes it tough to use outside a coverage area. What would be great is an app that will cache map overlays and point locally on the device, or let you download a few map "panels" before leaving coverage area.

There are several apps that do this for you. My current favorite is MotionX-GPS which is free for the lite version. Of course Foreflight 3.0 caches VFR charts too. Which is definitely not free.

I have Motion-X too, but it doesn't do that great a job at caching maps. I think the issue is that everytime you zoom in or out, new map overlay bitmaps are loaded or resampled for the new scale.

My 3G and my 3GS both take FOREVER to find a signal if out of cell range.

I have a iPhone and I love it. If you knuckle heads(I mean that in a good way)are thinking of using a iPhone as a serious navigation tool I need to send you the number to my shrink.

IMHO the iPhone is a toy, or at best a measure of last resort for in cockpit use.

If my attitude indicator goes when I am IFR, I will do what I was taught. Turn and bank, directional gyro if I have vacuum, altimeter. I also fly with a tablet that has a waas gps and synthetic vision. I'll take that over a iPhone.

At least you can spring for the iPad.

Good day

Would never use it as a primary source of anything except phone calls! No interest in it for navigation. Its the attitude info - I don't have a turn and bank. No real attitude aid other than the panel page of my Garmin (which I wouldn't trust). I am a strict VFR flyer obviously, but have been looking for something for the rare emergency, which is probably unlikely. But.....

emflys wrote:Would never use it as a primary source of anything except phone calls! No interest in it for navigation. Its the attitude info - I don't have a turn and bank. No real attitude aid other than the panel page of my Garmin (which I wouldn't trust). I am a strict VFR flyer obviously, but have been looking for something for the rare emergency, which is probably unlikely. But.....

I recommend the rock on a string. Hang from ceiling by the wind screen so you can see it.

Good day

Emflys... I think this is what you need. The MGL Infinity singles are 2 1/4" instrument and are pretty damned nice. I've been a dealer for them for the last year or so and have gotten to play with them. Very cool! They have all sorts of instruments for experimentals, but these are what we've been focused on as they're super small and more appropriate for ultralight LSA's.

The crazy thing about this one though is that the attitude sensor alone is $1000, while the display instrument is only $200. It's the same technology though that RC Allen is using in their electric solid state AI's that sell for $2,500.

Yeah, my tach is an Infinity - great value. I just don't want to pay that much. There are others - PC flight systems makes the one below. I am just being cheap and have been hoping it would make its way into a mass produced device to bring cost down. There are LOTS of makers of micro solid state AHRS's. I have looked.

http://www.pcflightsystems.com/?gclid=CL3Z39q9mKICFY9M5QodZz9EVQ

That's actually not a bad idea Rob. How's the battery life?